Just how good were “The Golden Generation”

[-Rob-]

That's bonkers. In the 12 year period of the 'golden generation', an English side got to the final of the CL 7 times, winning 4 trophies. We'd also regularly have teams in the semi-final stages. The last six years we've barely got teams to the semis, with just Liverpool making the final. The players may have been overhyped a bit, but they were a lot better than the current crop.

You're comparing teams full of foreign players that happen to play in England vs a national side of English only players.

Also, I didn't actually say the current players are better players. They are just playing better as a team and seem to get on a lot better.

 

[Little Ralphy]

I think player for player this squad isn't even close to them. But they never seemed to drop the ego from their game and as such never fulfilled their potential.

 

[Connor]

Golden Generation - good individual players, too many egos to ever be a decent national team.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You're comparing teams full of foreign players that happen to play in England vs a national side of English only players.

Also, I didn't actually say the current players are better players. They are just playing better as a team and seem to get on a lot better.

They may have had a lot of foreign players, but that didn't stop the likes of Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Ferdinand et al being among the best players in those teams. Be honest now, do you think the current team would have beaten Argentina, Brazil, Portugal or Germany this year?

 

[Little Ralphy]

They may have had a lot of foreign players, but that didn't stop the likes of Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Ferdinand et al being among the best players in those teams. Be honest now, do you think the current team would have beaten Argentina, Brazil, Portugal or Germany this year?

Only Brazil out of those sides were eventual winners, none of the others even made the final. So it's not like we lost to the best with that group.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

The players were legit good - seasoned CL performers throughout the side. Needed a strong-minded coach to A) mould a team around a tactical way of playing, not just pick the best eleven individuals as if it was a school yard kickabout, and B) sit a few egos down and tell Gerrard and others of his ilk that they can GTFO if they don't start performing.
Instead, England had Erikson who in hindsight was nowhere near the calibre required. Also a bit unlucky in going out on pens to strong sides - Rooney's international career peaked when he was with us, ironically, but he was also unlucky with injuries just prior to major tournaments.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Only Brazil out of those sides were eventual winners, none of the others even made the final. So it's not like we lost to the best with that group.

They're all sides considered at the time among the best in the world, and this year are 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th in the world. By contrast, the highest ranking team we beat was Colombia, in 16th position. Had we played any of those teams, I suspect the result would have been the same as it was against Belgium.

 

[-Rob-]

Be honest now, do you think the current team would have beaten Argentina, Brazil, Portugal or Germany this year?

It's impossible to say. Would you have put money on...
Mexico to beat Germany
Germany failing to beat Korea
Argentina failing to beat Iceland
Croatia beating Argentina
Brazil failing to beat Switzerland
Belgium beating Brazil
Portugal failing to beat Iran

It's been a WC of shock results

 

[Walken]

It's impossible to say. Would you have put money on...
Mexico to beat Germany
Germany failing to beat Korea
Argentina failing to beat Iceland
Croatia beating Argentina
Brazil failing to beat Switzerland
Belgium beating Brazil
Portugal failing to beat Iran

It's been a WC of shock results

not for this england team, that haven't beaten anyone that were shorter odds than them to win the world cup

 

[Wayno]

2006 squad was the best at the tournament imo. More than half our first team had book deals at the time , Cole , Terry , Ferdinand, Beckham , Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney off the top of my head. Maybe more, which just shows what a mess the circus was surrounding that squad at the time, the team then descended into being the most unlikeable England team of all time over the next 10 years. Southgate deserves a lot of credit for turning that around.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's impossible to say. Would you have put money on...
Mexico to beat Germany
Germany failing to beat Korea
Argentina failing to beat Iceland
Croatia beating Argentina
Brazil failing to beat Switzerland
Belgium beating Brazil
Portugal failing to beat Iran

It's been a WC of shock results

1998 Argentina were 6th England were 5th
2002 Brazil were 1st England were 8th
2006 Portugal were 8th England were 5th
2010 Germany were 3rd England were 6th

 

[dholliday]

Obviously more pertinent had we reached the final, but I fee there is still some good debate to be had on this topic.

The 2010 England World Cup squad included players such as Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Ferdinand, Cole... well you get the picture. These players were all obviously well known and considered to be some of the best the country has ever produced. However, they embarrassed themselves time and time again on the international stage.

In light of our current squads achievement does anyone think we will see a shift in perception towards these players, and what did our current lot do right?

Honestly the Golden Generation weren't as bad as all that: Sven got them to three quarter-finals in a row: the loss to Brazil was no thrashing, and the other two losses were pens.

After Sven things got more rotten.

It's a cup competition, so luck plays a huge part.

The evidence disagrees. Croatia are the first nation outside the recognised BIG NATIONS to reach the final since 1962's Czechoslovakia (and as you know the Czechs were borderline BIG back in the 60's/70's).

Since 1966 the finalists have always been BIG nations:

England (big at the time) Germany
Brazil Italy
Germany Holland
Holland Argie
Italy Germany
Argie Germany
Germany Argie
Brazil Italy
France Brazil
Brazil Germany
France Italy
Holland Spain (first final for Spain but always a sleeping Giant)
Germany Argie

That's not luck...that's tournament nous. They made their own luck through experience & being better than the rest.

A bunch of pre-Madonna’s only interested in there own game!!!

Debbie Harry's?

All these players played with technically excellent foreign players for their club which made them look good also getting hyped up by the uk media doesn't help
Rooney in his prime was the only world class player this country has produced since Gazza

Agreed.

I'd add Beckham to that list. A lot of people overlook the football because of his lifestyle and his wife but he was the very best at the time at what he did and England haven't replaced him since.

Borderline agree. I was a big fan of Beckham the footballer, tho' he did have his quiet games too.

That's bonkers. In the 12 year period of the 'golden generation', an English side got to the final of the CL 7 times, winning 4 trophies. We'd also regularly have teams in the semi-final stages. The last six years we've barely got teams to the semis, with just Liverpool making the final. The players may have been overhyped a bit, but they were a lot better than the current crop.

You're comparing teams full of foreign players that happen to play in England vs a national side of English only players.

Also, I didn't actually say the current players are better players. They are just playing better as a team and seem to get on a lot better.

What Rob said.

England had Erikson who in hindsight was nowhere near the calibre required.

Disagree. Sven got England three quarter-finals in a row and didn't get well-beat in any of them. Arguably best manager England have had outside Ramsay himself.

El Tel or Mystic Glenn could've been good had the suits not sacked them off for whatever reason.

lol They're all sides considered at the time among the best in the world, and this year are 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th in the world. By contrast, the highest ranking team we beat was Colombia, in 16th position. Had we played any of those teams, I suspect the result would have been the same as it was against Belgium.

FIFA Rankings, as we all know, mean nothing.

 

[Billy Dean]

good individual players but badly managed in the sense they didn't have a manager with a plan for them. Also a bunch of self-centred bells.

 

[-Rob-]

Borderline agree. I was a big fan of Beckham the footballer, tho' he did have his quiet games too.

Show me a single top class footballer that hasn't had their quiet games. It happens to them all.

Even Tony Hibbert had a quiet game once

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The evidence disagrees. Croatia are the first nation outside the recognised BIG NATIONS to reach the final since 1962's Czechoslovakia (and as you know the Czechs were borderline BIG back in the 60's/70's).

Since 1966 the finalists have always been BIG nations:

England (big at the time) Germany
Brazil Italy
Germany Holland
Holland Argie
Italy Germany
Argie Germany
Germany Argie
Brazil Italy
France Brazil
Brazil Germany
France Italy
Holland Spain (first final for Spain but always a sleeping Giant)
Germany Argie

That's not luck...that's tournament nous. They made their own luck through experience & being better than the rest.

.

You've made my point for me. At no point during that generation were England ranked in the top 4 in the world, so getting to the quarter finals was about par for them. To get further they would need luck in the way that the current team have enjoyed it by being drawn against lesser teams en route. Even the 1990 squad would have been expected to beat Belgium and Cameroon because they were both lower ranked teams.