Jose Mourinho is boss

[JobForTheMoyes]

I agree with @Saint Domingo it may actually benefit him going to a smaller club at this stage, the Chelsea team that he went to did not have superstars in it. Jose needs to be the biggest ego at the club and he has found that at teams like Utd and Real that isn't going to be the case. If he goes somewhere where the players look up to him and are willing to follow his instructions to the letter we will probably see the best of Jose.

Of course he isn't going to come here but people who doubt him would do well to think twice before casting off a serial trophy winner.

What Chelsea team?!?

 

[The binman chronicles]

What Chelsea team?!?

The first one when he took over in 2004.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I get the point you're making, but he's invested big every transfer window bar the last, where it seems Woodward has lost some faith in his eye for a player.

He's taken players like Sanchez & Martial and seemingly made them into worse players. Sanchez was heralded as world class before joining Utd and has somehow been abysmal in his time there. That is largely down to how Utd play which is entirely down to the manager.

He's looking increasingly like a manger/coach whose best days are behind him.

He’s had to invest big though like Silva. Imagine the United squad when he came, basically Van Gaal’s but he’d already sold off Di Maria. The front three was Rashford Lingard Martial, Rooney Fellaini Schneiderlin in midfield and then the likes of Rojo Jones Smalling at the back. Apart from De Gea it was an awful awful squad. He’s spent huge money to bring in Pogba Lukaku Matic Fred Bailly just to give the team a spine. He’d argue though it’s not enough, the same way Silva has had to buy Richarlison Zouma Digne just to get some decent players in some positions but basically to even stand still. Mourinho probably needs (but might not get) another window to add in a RB, Left winger and probably another centreback just to get a star 11 out (which is what City Chelsea and Liverpool have). To try and match the squad of City or Chelsea he probably needs longer but those two clubs have been recruiting well for years and years regardless of manager. Silva likewise probably needs big investment in January and the summer just to get an 11 he’s happy with then he might get to the point where one injury doesn’t mean you’re playing Calvert Lewin outwide or Niasse upfront.

I agree with you on Martial and Sanchez, I don’t know what’s happening there.

 

[Skamp]

He’s had to invest big though like Silva. Imagine the United squad when he came, basically Van Gaal’s but he’d already sold off Di Maria. The front three was Rashford Lingard Martial, Rooney Fellaini Schneiderlin in midfield and then the likes of Rojo Jones Smalling at the back. Apart from De Gea it was an awful awful squad. He’s spent huge money to bring in Pogba Lukaku Matic Fred Bailly just to give the team a spine. He’d argue though it’s not enough, the same way Silva has had to buy Richarlison Zouma Digne just to get some decent players in some positions but basically to even stand still. Mourinho probably needs (but might not get) another window to add in a RB, Left winger and probably another centreback just to get a star 11 out (which is what City Chelsea and Liverpool have). To try and match the squad of City or Chelsea he probably needs longer but those two clubs have been recruiting well for years and years regardless of manager. Silva likewise probably needs big investment in January and the summer just to get an 11 he’s happy with then he might get to the point where one injury doesn’t mean you’re playing Calvert Lewin outwide or Niasse upfront.

I agree with you on Martial and Sanchez, I don’t know what’s happening there.

Again, fair shout on everything you've said. I think the biggest bugbear of Utd fans (those I know and have read about) is they reckon the squad now is pretty good (defence aside though Jose spent £60k on 2 CBs he seems not to trust), but the sum of the parts is a lot less than the individuals that make the sum up. A new manager, utilising the players in a more attacking mode, would get a lot more out of the team than Mourinho is getting at the moment.

As a Liverpool fan, I hate all things Utd, but I'm not stupid/biased enough to underestimate how good Jose has been the past 15 years; his record speaks for itself, but he does seem to have lost his mojo since his stint in Madrid. Not sure he can regain it.

 

[gonetomorrow]

I honestly think Jose is quite ill. He needs a long rest in a mountaintop sanatorium.

 

[goodisonopheliac]

Seriously? The majority of United fans HATE him and want him gone. They largely echo Scholes' sentiments.

As for going to Everton, with all due respect, look at the clubs he's managed since leaving Portugal; some of the the biggest & richest clubs in their respective leagues with virtually limitless transfer/wages budgets. He is (or was) all about winning titles with pragmatic, risk-averse football. He's not about getting hero-worshipped for "modest achievements". Modest achievements do not look good on his CV, nor can he quote them when telling us what he's won.

What part of 'Mourinho is not going to come to Everton, ever' do people not understand?

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

The first one when he took over in 2004.

Was the most expensive team in the world, jam -packed with big names. The likes of Drogba, Cech, Lampard, Makalele, Duff and Robben. Indeed it is rather interesting that the bulk of their great team were signed under Ranieri rather than Jose.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

He’s had to invest big though like Silva. Imagine the United squad when he came, basically Van Gaal’s but he’d already sold off Di Maria. The front three was Rashford Lingard Martial, Rooney Fellaini Schneiderlin in midfield and then the likes of Rojo Jones Smalling at the back. Apart from De Gea it was an awful awful squad. He’s spent huge money to bring in Pogba Lukaku Matic Fred Bailly just to give the team a spine. He’d argue though it’s not enough, the same way Silva has had to buy Richarlison Zouma Digne just to get some decent players in some positions but basically to even stand still. Mourinho probably needs (but might not get) another window to add in a RB, Left winger and probably another centreback just to get a star 11 out (which is what City Chelsea and Liverpool have). To try and match the squad of City or Chelsea he probably needs longer but those two clubs have been recruiting well for years and years regardless of manager. Silva likewise probably needs big investment in January and the summer just to get an 11 he’s happy with then he might get to the point where one injury doesn’t mean you’re playing Calvert Lewin outwide or Niasse upfront.

I agree with you on Martial and Sanchez, I don’t know what’s happening there.

What tosh - Van Gaal spent an absolute fortune. They would have a better team for less money now if they had kept Moyes in charge. He even had an agreement to sign Toni Kroos, which Van Gaal scuppered and Moyes signings are still key players years later.

 

[summerisle]

Very, very fruity language.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Was the most expensive team in the world, jam -packed with big names. The likes of Drogba, Cech, Lampard, Makalele, Duff and Robben. Indeed it is rather interesting that the bulk of their great team were signed under Ranieri rather than Jose.

They were not massively huge names at the time and were quite young bar Makalele, it was an expensive squad but they became stars in that team. Thus they all looked up to Mourinho and managers who came in afterwards they didn't like were thwarted by player power.

World of difference between that team and dealing with the Ronaldo's, Ramos' and Pogba's.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

They were not massively huge names at the time and were quite young bar Makalele, it was an expensive squad but they became stars in that team. Thus they all looked up to Mourinho and managers who came in afterwards they didn't like were thwarted by player power.

World of difference between that team and dealing with the Ronaldo's, Ramos' and Pogba's.

That is complete tripe - in Mourinho’s first season alone they spent 95 million. And back then that was worth multiples of what it is now.

20DFPaulo Ferreira Porto£13.2 million[10]

23 June 2004 1GK Petr Čech Rennes£7.1 million[11]

1 July 200416MFArjen Robben PSV£12 million[12]

1 July 20049FWMateja Kežman PSV£5.3 million[13]

13 July 200415FWDidier Drogba Marseille£24 million[14]

20 July 200430MFTiago Benfica£10 million[15]

21 July 20046DFRicardo Carvalho Porto£19.85 million[16]

28 July 200433DFNuno MoraisPenafielUndisclosed[17]

29 August 200427MF Jiří JarošíkCSKA Moscow£3 million[18]

As a comparison Moyes finished 4th spending:
Marcus Bent - Ipswich Town, £450,000, 23 June[5]

Tim Cahill - Millwall, undisclosed (estimated £2,000,000), 23 July[6]

Eddy Bosnar - Sturm Graz, free, 4 August[7]

James Beattie - Southampton, £6,000,000, 4 January[8]

Mikel Arteta - Real Sociedad, five-month loan, 1 February[9]

Bjarni Viðarsson - FH, undisclosed

 

[The binman chronicles]

That is complete tripe - in Mourinho’s first season alone they spent 95 million. And back then that was worth multiples of what it is now.

20DFPaulo Ferreira Porto£13.2 million[10]

23 June 2004 1GK Petr Čech Rennes£7.1 million[11]

1 July 200416MFArjen Robben PSV£12 million[12]

1 July 20049FWMateja Kežman PSV£5.3 million[13]

13 July 200415FWDidier Drogba Marseille£24 million[14]

20 July 200430MFTiago Benfica£10 million[15]

21 July 20046DFRicardo Carvalho Porto£19.85 million[16]

28 July 200433DFNuno MoraisPenafielUndisclosed[17]

29 August 200427MF Jiří JarošíkCSKA Moscow£3 million[18]

As a comparison Moyes finished 4th spending:
Marcus Bent - Ipswich Town, £450,000, 23 June[5]

Tim Cahill - Millwall, undisclosed (estimated £2,000,000), 23 July[6]

Eddy Bosnar - Sturm Graz, free, 4 August[7]

James Beattie - Southampton, £6,000,000, 4 January[8]

Mikel Arteta - Real Sociedad, five-month loan, 1 February[9]

Bjarni Viðarsson - FH, undisclosed

What are you trying to prove by posting that lot? 1. I never compared Chelsea's spending with Everton's at the time and 2. Look at the names of the people that Jose signed now compare with the actual superstars of that time, Giggs, Henry, Rooney, Ronaldinho, Cannavaro, Carlos, Zidane, Ballack, Buffon, Del Piero, Figo, Ronaldo 1 and 2, even bloody Michael Owen to name but a handful.

For what Chelsea signed you may as well look at us over-spending on Sigurdsson, Pickford etc. Drogba had had his first decent season the year before, Ferreira and Carvalho had been with Jose in Porto and he helped make them so they aren't coming to shoot down anything he says. They spent that much because they could and they were just going through the phases to replace decent players bought in the early days, thinking of Duff/Cole type ones, eventually going on to signing the world's best players after they won the league. The only point I was making is that Chelsea did not have the massive egos at the time that you would find in the Real Madrid or Manchester United squads and I still stand by that.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

What are you trying to prove by posting that lot? 1. I never compared Chelsea's spending with Everton's at the time and 2. Look at the names of the people that Jose signed now compare with the actual superstars of that time, Giggs, Henry, Rooney, Ronaldinho, Cannavaro, Carlos, Zidane, Ballack, Buffon, Del Piero, Figo, Ronaldo 1 and 2, even bloody Michael Owen to name but a handful.

For what Chelsea signed you may as well look at us over-spending on Sigurdsson, Pickford etc. Drogba had had his first decent season the year before, Ferreira and Carvalho had been with Jose in Porto and he helped make them so they aren't coming to shoot down anything he says. They spent that much because they could and they were just going through the phases to replace decent players bought in the early days, thinking of Duff/Cole type ones, eventually going on to signing the world's best players after they won the league. The only point I was making is that Chelsea did not have the massive egos at the time that you would find in the Real Madrid or Manchester United squads and I still stand by that.

Drogba was the hot property in world football. Robben likewise. Comparing them to our signings is mad. It is more like Barcelona signing Neymar a few seasons ago. It says a lot that Robben was surplus to Chelsea requirements when he signed for Real Madrid. And you mention Rooney as a superstar at the time, but he and Robben fought it out for young Premier League player of the year in his first season.

You seem to forget how utterly dominant that Chelsea team was - the most efficient, unrelenting team I have ever seen in English football. And it was built with the very best materials and at a time when the very best players would come to England ahead of Barcelona or Real.

And Duff was more than decent - Robben and Duff on opposite wings was one of the most lethal pairings I have seen.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Drogba was the hot property in world football. Robben likewise. Comparing them to our signings is mad. It is more like Barcelona signing Neymar a few seasons ago. It says a lot that Robben was surplus to Chelsea requirements when he signed for Real Madrid. And you mention Rooney as a superstar at the time, but he and Robben fought it out for young Premier League player of the year in his first season.

You seem to forget how utterly dominant that Chelsea team was - the most efficient, unrelenting team I have ever seen in English football. And it was built with the very best materials and at a time when the very best players would come to England ahead of Barcelona or Real.

And Duff was more than decent - Robben and Duff on opposite wings was one of the most lethal pairings I have seen.

Haven't forgotten anything and I remember it well and my point still stands and you keep helping to prove it. Neymar was a talent then but he wasn't the worlds most expensive footballer that he is now and he wasn't the proven striker that he became by showing what he could do at Barca. Same as Drogba, hot property yes, world superstar that he went on to become, no.

Same with Robben, he became a star in that Chelsea side, beforehand he was a 20 year old with 4 caps. Bags of potential but he isn't/wasn't going to cause Jose the same problems that he is facing in the dressing room now against players like Pogba and Sanchez. Robben circa >= 2010 might have though. See what I mean?

Chelsea were a great team at the time but they were still building up and that's why they kept replacing the players in search of winning the champions league. If they were the worlds best in 2004 they wouldn't have been constantly replacing players thereafter would they? It helped that Jose went in and made them believe and that the spine of the team, Cech, Terry, Lampard and Droba became world class players.

Just to add I wasn't comparing the quality of our players to theirs just the silly prices, Chelsea came in and blew the market apart and some say we did that by spending 30 million on Pickford and Keane and 45 million on Siggy. Of course the Neymar and Coutinho situation turned that up by a factor of 10 shortly afterwards.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Haven't forgotten anything and I remember it well and my point still stands and you keep helping to prove it. Neymar was a talent then but he wasn't the worlds most expensive footballer that he is now and he wasn't the proven striker that he became by showing what he could do at Barca. Same as Drogba, hot property yes, world superstar that he went on to become, no.

Same with Robben, he became a star in that Chelsea side, beforehand he was a 20 year old with 4 caps. Bags of potential but he isn't/wasn't going to cause Jose the same problems that he is facing in the dressing room now against players like Pogba and Sanchez. Robben circa >= 2010 might have though. See what I mean?

Chelsea were a great team at the time but they were still building up and that's why they kept replacing the players in search of winning the champions league. If they were the worlds best in 2004 they wouldn't have been constantly replacing players thereafter would they? It helped that Jose went in and made them believe and that the spine of the team, Cech, Terry, Lampard and Droba became world class players.

Just to add I wasn't comparing the quality of our players to theirs just the silly prices, Chelsea came in and blew the market apart and some say we did that by spending 30 million on Pickford and Keane and 45 million on Siggy. Of course the Neymar and Coutinho situation turned that up by a factor of 10 shortly afterwards.

To be honest, they should have won it under Ranieri - he totally blew it against Monaco. Also Jose was outfoxed a couple of times by Rafael. Say what you like about him, but there are few better than Benitez in the cup competitions. Liverpool survived tremendous pressure in those games. I think the top teams in England then were much better than now - every team was full of top talent, with Henry, Ronaldo, Torres, etc.