January Transfer Thread 2020

[Lanolin]

We have many problems within the squad, but the overall demography isn't one of them. Brands has done well to recruit to an average age of under 25 the last 2 summers (one summer we were the 4th youngest in the league for that, I haven't assessed 2019).

While it's true the majority or close to entering or have just entered the magic 25-30 bracket where you expect the best/most consistent performances from players as a squad most are just entering it. There is still some room for improvement, but as you say not massive strides. That suits the manager we have and the supporters expectations. I don't see any massive desire for a 3 year project where we are very inconsistent before it starts to get ironed out.

The expectation ought to now be, for Holgate, Calvert Lewin, Richarlinson, Iwobi, Gbamin, MIna, Digne, Pickford etc to start delivering quite consistently. Perhaps not markedly improved displays but certainly ones where there is greater consistency.

Either side of that group, you have the likes of Keane (though I suspect he will be sold) Bernard, Gomes, Sidibe who I still think can perform better. Not necessarily out of an age point, but because we have a top manager now who is tactically more astute (I use Bernard as the bets example of this). The other side we have Davies and Kean. We need to see improvements from them for sure. I think we'd all like to see more young players targeted and developed as well.

I do accept, you have Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Delph at the other end who will now be declining. However in general the squad demography is fine. I mean I listened to Souness go on about Liverpool having a young squad. Mane, Salah, Van Dijk, Alisson all turn 28 over coming months, Lovren, Matip, Henderson and Firmino turn 29+ soon. Wijnaldum, Robertson are all well into that 25-30 bracket too. So it could be worse for us from that perspective.

Yeah absolutely, I wasn't trying to suggest it's an old squad, just that we really wouldn't have a gap in that bracket. It would be where the huge majority of the leftover squad would be.

I think a lot of fans have talked about Brands signing players 'under 26' as if they're all young and developing. Somebody was saying it to me on here yesterday. A lot of them have been only just under 26 though. Gomes and Brands were 25 when they signed their contracts but pretty much 26 by the time they actually played a game.

 

[Toffeelover]

The legacy of these players is hurting us for sure. The fortunate thing is that Niasse and Martina are gone come the summer. Scheniderlin has 1 year left (so it becomes a potentially better option). We have Tosun out on loan and we have to hope he impresses enough to move on. So there is 3 or 4 that could be out of the door.

It does become easier as contracts wind down. Suddenly Schneiderlin starts to look and think I could sacrifice 1 season going from say 120k per week to 60k per week knowing the latter will offer him a 3-4 year deal. Clubs also may start to say, ok we will pay 6 million pounds for the season to take him on loan, knowing there is no fee at the end of it.

It's getting better slowly. The key critical point has to be that we don't keep compounding the mistakes by buying poorer players, or not giving players a chance to settle. I think we have been better at that under Brands. The players signed generally speaking seem to have a future here.

If their contracts are expiring this summer then could have easily gone this January but no club came for them just shows no one wants them.

 

[Brett Angell Delight]

The "Brands has had loads of time to prepare" argument/whinge does my box right in. January transfer window is a massive joke in which clubs (ourselves included, quite a few times) pay well over the odds for dross in a desperate attempt to salvage their season. You can "prepare" all you want but if the right combo of players + price(s) aren't available then swerve.

I've had 20-odd years to "prepare" to woo Jennifer Aniston and I am only slightly closer to that goal (assuming my ranking has improved given how many men have died in that time).

 

[catcherintherye]

If their contracts are expiring this summer then could have easily gone this January but no club came for them just shows no one wants them.

None have yet. It doesn't say a lot for either of them that they won't push to find a club where they can play over the next 3-4 years. Martina in particular was a horrendous footballer and an awful signing.

 

[ossie_21]

None have yet. It doesn't say a lot for either of them that they won't push to find a club where they can play over the next 3-4 years. Martina in particular was a horrendous footballer and an awful signing.

Not having a go at the person, but he was literally without a club. Could have just given him a 12-month see how we go type deal, but to give him 3 years makes me wonder what sort of agreement he must have had with Koeman . To get a permanent resident visa or something is the only logical reason I can think of.

 

[granter79]

It doesn't come as an enormous surprise to me if we do. I felt if Ancelotti was going to go big this window it would have been done early, and probably picking up a couple of high profile names from Serie A (As you say Koulibaly, possibly Allan).

However it doesn't look as if that will be the approach taken. It looks far more as if Brands remains in charge of recruitment. It will probably prevent us having an immediate boost in terms of this season, but in terms of the wider picture it's perhaps for the best. It's interesting , in tone and approach I've been a little surprised (and impressed with Ancelotti). He seems far less focussed on the short-term and far more focussed on the medium term than I anticipated. There have been overtures towards wanting to be with the club over a period of time, he obviously has a 4.5 year deal and we have seen him promote lads who are as young as 16 to the first team squad to train. None of this hints at a man who just wants to buy 3 or 4 trusted players to work well for him over the next 18 months then ride off into the sunset.

I also think the upturn in form has killed a lot of necessity for players. In a specific sense Holgate and Calvert Lewin's improvement (and the promise Kean showed the other night) have really dampened the requirement for both a centre half and a centre forward (which felt imperative 6 and potentially even 4 weeks ago). If you are then looking at the medium term, January becomes a recruiting ground becomes a difficult window to recruit in.

I think we are in quite a strong position. Were we where West Ham are, or Bournemouth there would be enormous pressure to pay the asking price for Vecino and possibly Everton (and you can bet those fees would be higher than they are now). It is good we are holding firm and continuing to push the price down for both (we have suffered from overpaying for some time). I wouldn't rule out one or either coming in, and for fees that are a fair bit below what the quoted prices are now. That both Gremio and Inter collapse at the las minute and take whats on offer (as we would with Schneiderlin/Sigurdsson).

If it doesn't happen though, and through brinksmanship the deals collapse then so be it. While the season has gone disastrously I don't really put that down to not signing Zouma. Not signing Zouma has allowed Holgate to emerge (and to a degree Mina though I still want more from him). Last season we didn't buy any players in January and the form improved. Other seasons we've bought players and the form has really tailed off. I'm not saying it's as simple as this or it's a direct correlation, but neither does signing players automatically improve your team.

It will be frustrating but my hope is that this season is used as a long pre-season for the manager, much like how Rodgers did with Leicester. I'd love to finish 5th (which we still can) but this has to be alongside the former not instead of. How positive would it be, in 12 months time to be sat here, in 2nd or 3rd place absolutely flying because we were able to show some patience at the start of the calendar year? I still see that as a real possibility. We have an opportunity to do that, and it would be a shame to waste it because we think about what the club needs over the next 3 months in a season which has limited options for success.

Great post mate. A realistic summary of where we are and I agree that I have been surprised with Carlo and how calm he has been which looks like the medium term is the goal which I'm in favour of.

 

[catcherintherye]

Yeah absolutely, I wasn't trying to suggest it's an old squad, just that we really wouldn't have a gap in that bracket. It would be where the huge majority of the leftover squad would be.

I think a lot of fans have talked about Brands signing players 'under 26' as if they're all young and developing. Somebody was saying it to me on here yesterday. A lot of them have been only just under 26 though. Gomes and Brands were 25 when they signed their contracts but pretty much 26 by the time they actually played a game.

As a point of order Gomes was around 24 just turning 25 when we signed him, but the point is granted on Bernard.

I think 23-25 is a good age group for us to target as players. People who there should be some improvement (potentially substantial improvement if they have fallen by the wayside at a "top" club) but also a much higher ceiling in terms of levels of performance and consistency than you might get from someone who is under 20.

I've had a little look at the league table, and demographically we are currently 5th for the youngest sides in the league, and I suspect we will be in the top 4 by the end of the season. We have a young squad, but it's not recklessly young.

There has to be some degree of realism to the discussion. We are not going to become Leipzig. Not when you have an owner that clearly wants very quick success.

 

[catcherintherye]

Not having a go at the person, but he was literally without a club. Could have just given him a 12-month see how we go type deal, but to give him 3 years makes me wonder what sort of agreement he must have had with Koeman . To get a permanent resident visa or something is the only logical reason I can think of.

It was an awful signing, and I remember saying so at the time. He was Southamptons 3rd choice right back, at a time when they were just surviving relegation. He couldn't kick the ball with his left foot and was somehow elevated to our back up left back and back up right back.

 

[catcherintherye]

Great post mate. A realistic summary of where we are and I agree that I have been surprised with Carlo and how calm he has been which looks like the medium term is the goal which I'm in favour of.

Thanks mate and exactly this. He seems quite calm about the situation. I do think we have to try to have balanced conclusions. Our biggest problem over the last 3-4 years has not been lack of signings, but bad investments. In truth we are being hauled up the league by a mixture of players signed by Unsworth/Martinez (Holgate/DCL) and then players Brands has brought to the club. With the exception of Gana, who brought in a big fee, and to a degree Pickford, the period when we hammered money around like nobody's business hasn't worked.

If the right player at the right price becomes available we should look to do the deal. However we shouldn't be trying to panic buy anyone.

 

[andy4efc]

Hate to be negative about it, but can't see us bringing anyone in now, particularly if the inability to shift players is stopping us spending any cash.

We can probably make do without a defender or attacker being added, but the lack a decent midfielder is going to hurt us big time. Gomes and Gbamin are basically going to be two unknowns for the first month after their first game back. Beyond them we have zero quality.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Could do a job for a year or two perhaps.

No resale value.

Swerve.

 

[Carlito]

DCL is on £20k so no, no he isn’t.

According to a friend of mine's cousin, who came through at Everton before moving elsewhere, the academy lads call them 'Tyias contracts.'

Apparently, Tyias Browning somehow got a £25k-a-week deal, and then everyone started saying that if he's worth that much, so are they.

 

[Groucho]

No incomings at all imo.

I’m not ITK before anyone starts asking for info.

 

[Stuartisitc1878]

I’ve just read the Inter have decided to keep Vecino after calling the player up for their upcoming CoppaItalia match having not received a bid they deem worthy. It says we’ve bid 14m and they want 20. It may happen late on I guess but I just can’t see us offering more, certainly not this window so unless Inter’s stance softens this won’t happen – assuming we’ve bid at all.
Personally I can see us bringing someone in on loan but that’s it – I’ve a gut feeling it’ll be James Rodriguez. No idea why I just think he may be available on loan, we have no one like him in the squad so he offers something completely new and he’s one of the Carlo’s guys. Carlo signed him at Real and took him to Bayern and tried to sign him at Napoli… he clearly likes and trusts the guy. Like I said it’s just a gut feeling.

 

[DanB90]

Who we signing today mates?