Is 7th and "Net Spend" The Only Reason To Keep Moyes

[Seamus Colemole]

I believe what Stend is saying is that simply by looking at net spend/wages paid doesn't tell the whole story.

So therefor any clown who says "we can't compete with Liverpool because they have a player who cost £18 million and is on £75,000 week" or any similar line is talking complete bollocks and missing the way way more important fact :

that it doesn't matter how much a player cost/gets paid if they're complete gash and our player who cost less/gets paid less is actually the better player, ala Steven Pienaar.

Do that throughout the whole squad and anyone using net spend as an excuse for failure is a bad bad apologist.

Money only makes it easier to sign better and more players, during transfer windows we're at a distinct disadvantage. But once the players are signed money doesn't come in to it, its all about ability. You compare the ability of the squads not the price tags.

Of course there's a general rule that the more you spend the better your players are but thats not a hard and fast rule when applied to football.

Moyes does a very good job considering his resources. But those resources, despite what some people like to claim, do not create a catch all excuse for every single failing he has as a manager and we have as a team.

 

[Brennan]

I believe what Stend is saying is that simply by looking at net spend/wages paid doesn't tell the whole story.

So therefor any clown who says "we can't compete with Liverpool because they have a player who cost £18 million and is on £75,000 week" or any similar line is talking complete bollocks and missing the way way more important fact :

that it doesn't matter how much a player cost/gets paid if they're complete gash and our player who cost less/gets paid less is actually the better player, ala Steven Pienaar.

Do that throughout the whole squad and anyone using net spend as an excuse for failure is a bad bad apologist.

Money only makes it easier to sign better and more players, during transfer windows we're at a distinct disadvantage. But once the players are signed money doesn't come in to it, its all about ability. You compare the ability of the squads not the price tags.

Of course there's a general rule that the more you spend the better your players are but thats not a hard and fast rule when applied to football.

Moyes does a very good job considering his resources. But those resources, despite what some people like to claim, do not create a catch all excuse for every single failing he has as a manager and we have as a team.

Who in this thread has claimed that though ?

 

[Stend]

I believe what Stend is saying is that simply by looking at net spend/wages paid doesn't tell the whole story.

So therefor any clown who says "we can't compete with Liverpool because they have a player who cost £18 million and is on £75,000 week" or any similar line is talking complete bollocks and missing the way way more important fact :

that it doesn't matter how much a player cost/gets paid if they're complete gash and our player who cost less/gets paid less is actually the better player, ala Steven Pienaar.

Do that throughout the whole squad and anyone using net spend as an excuse for failure is a bad bad apologist.

Money only makes it easier to sign better and more players, during transfer windows we're at a distinct disadvantage. But once the players are signed money doesn't come in to it, its all about ability. You compare the ability of the squads not the price tags.

Of course there's a general rule that the more you spend the better your players are but thats not a hard and fast rule when applied to football.

Moyes does a very good job considering his resources. But those resources, despite what some people like to claim, do not create a catch all excuse for every single failing he has as a manager and we have as a team.

You're much better at explaining things than me mate. You got it in one. Spot on! Thanks

 

[Ihaters]

I believe what Stend is saying is that simply by looking at net spend/wages paid doesn't tell the whole story.

So therefor any clown who says "we can't compete with Liverpool because they have a player who cost £18 million and is on £75,000 week" or any similar line is talking complete bollocks and missing the way way more important fact :

that it doesn't matter how much a player cost/gets paid if they're complete gash and our player who cost less/gets paid less is actually the better player, ala Steven Pienaar.

Do that throughout the whole squad and anyone using net spend as an excuse for failure is a bad bad apologist.

Money only makes it easier to sign better and more players, during transfer windows we're at a distinct disadvantage. But once the players are signed money doesn't come in to it, its all about ability. You compare the ability of the squads not the price tags.

Of course there's a general rule that the more you spend the better your players are but thats not a hard and fast rule when applied to football.

Moyes does a very good job considering his resources. But those resources, despite what some people like to claim, do not create a catch all excuse for every single failing he has as a manager and we have as a team.

Who is saying this about Liverpool? We are above them ffs, of course we can compete, we are competing!
Surely Moyes biggest asset is that we do compete under financial circumstances that should be seeing us much further down the table through both decent tactics and decent acquisitions, despite what some try to claim.

I havn't read any of these posts you guys refer to, but you read some massively poor arguments from people trying to defend Moiyes. I some how miss all of them.
The above boldened bit about Liverpool
People claiming there is no manager in the world that could possibly keep us up.
People saying Moyes is exempt from criticism because of net spend, like yourself and the op..
I can only assume you lot frequent different forums where these people are posting because I have not seen any of these arguments on here?

 

[Carlito]

While we're on the subject, I came across this earlier:

 

[Ihaters]

While we're on the subject, I came across this earlier:

Its weird how that apparently just doesn't matter isn't it?

 

[Stend]

Who is saying this about Liverpool? We are above them ffs, of course we can compete, we are competing!
Surely Moyes biggest asset is that we do compete under financial circumstances that should be seeing us much further down the table through both decent tactics and decent acquisitions, despite what some try to claim.

I havn't read any of these posts you guys refer to, but you read some massively poor arguments from people trying to defend Moiyes. I some how miss all of them.
The above boldened bit about Liverpool
People claiming there is no manager in the world that could possibly keep us up.
People saying Moyes is exempt from criticism because of net spend, like yourself and the op..
I can only assume you lot frequent different forums where these people are posting because I have not seen any of these arguments on here?

This is the most confusing post I've ever read. I don't think you actually registered anything I or deathlike said. I can't work out if you're pro Moyes or against Moyes.

 

[Stend]

Its weird how that apparently just doesn't matter isn't it?

You ain't reading anything posted properly are you. Just because teams above us spent more money on players doesn't automatically mean those players are better quality than the ones we purchased. I'll wager if the big player sales were added to that chart we'd move up that list.

 

[Dell Boy]

so true, KENWRIGHT OUT

Jesus - you are GOT's version of Father Jack aren't you?!?!?!?

 

[Ihaters]

This is the most confusing post I've ever read. I don't think you actually registered anything I or deathlike said. I can't work out if you're pro Moyes or against Moyes.

I'll try and simplify:
This is what the pro moyes posters apparently say.. according to both the highlighted post, the op and another post I read yesterday or the day before...
We can't compete with Liverpool because they have a player who cost £18 million and is on £75,000 week
There is no manager in the world that could possibly keep us up
Moyes is exempt from criticism because of net spend
None of these responses I have seen anywhere, where are you lot getting them from?

 

[Ihaters]

You ain't reading anything posted properly are you. Just because teams above us spent more money on players doesn't automatically mean those players are better quality than the ones we purchased. I'll wager if the big player sales were added to that chart we'd move up that list.

I read fine, its just weird how the effect of money is so easily overlooked, forget not getting Hazard, Aguerro, Suarez, Bale and all the other games changers, the psychological aspect shown so clearly by the difference in January transfer windows over the last few years is made irrelevant by those unwilling to see the obviousness of it all

The small squad size
The fact that outside the first 11 we are basically a championship team.

None of it matters because our first team is better than theirs so we should be above them.

Personally I would rather we had a big squad of quality and if Moyes failed to win anything with that then kick him out, he doesn't, he fails to win trophies and can't quite (re)break the top 4 with a squad of quality the size of the first 11, and the rest a very poor shadow of the first team... That's despite Moyes buying well.

You can repeat that just because we have a good first team we should be better than them, but that only works if they are not knackered, injured, suspended etc...
Those that have money can take missing personnel, we get one we are looking at a massive drop in quality in all but a couple of positions, but don't let that effect your argument, better just to accuse me of not reading properly.

Fact is I am reading it fine, I am just disbelieving how little effect people seem to think money has on the quality of squad we have and can assemble, and again the quality of what we can put out and how competitive it can be further into the season without any new faces to freshen things up.

 

[Stend]

We've probably got the 7-8th best squad in terms of quality in the league. That's where he is finishing. He's no messiah.


And people do justify his 7th place finish by referring to net spend on here time and time again.

 

[Ihaters]

We've probably got the 7-8th best squad in terms of quality in the league. That's where he is finishing. He's no messiah.


And people do justify his 7th place finish by referring to net spend on here time and time again.

I think that's where we differ most, I don't think 7th place needs justifying when you compare our squad to those above us. I'd also say the squad gap between us and those above is massive, yet we are right up with them.

 

[Stend]

Finishing 7th doesn't make him This fantastic manager though. He's doing about right. He's not going beyond that. Winning a trophy or cracking the top 4 on a few occasions would enough to say he's absolutely fantastic he's working wonders. He might be in the transfer market but in terms of success and quality of squad it's standard management.

 

[Ihaters]

Finishing 7th doesn't make him This fantastic manager though. He's doing about right. He's not going beyond that. Winning a trophy or cracking the top 4 on a few occasions would enough to say he's absolutely fantastic he's working wonders. He might be in the transfer market but in terms of success and quality of squad it's standard management.

He's hit the top 4, why does it now need a couple of occasions, will you change to winning a couple of trophies should he get one? Would it change to top 3 should he get 4th again?
I think having finishes of 4th, 5th, 6th,7th and 8th under his restrictions do make him a quality manager, in terms of both bringing in players and getting results with them.
We all want silverware, I also think people over simplify how easy it is to achieve, yes a few have fluked it once, but how many repeated that outside of the obvious top teams? i.e how many were not flukes?
Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps I think its harder to buy quality players with no money and play them to their level than it is, its odd how so many other teams can't do it though.