If we have a clearout in the summer...

[Kever10]

Hey y'all

This is my first actual thread starting post... other than my introduction that is... and it comes about because I have had a slow day in work and my mind has wandered, as it often does, to thoughts on Evertons present and future...

The thought that has occupied me most recently is relating to our current financial plight (yes, I am that original) and the inevitable changes that are going to be taking place, sooner or later.

Seemingly, on here, there are 2 schools of thought:

1 ) We are on the verge of being sold, as the current board can no longer provide the support we need and are currently trying to get things in order before they hold their hands up and admit that fact, passing the torch to a new group to attempt what they have failed to do (which, if Damon is right, would be awesome, as long as the new owners do actually have the resources to improve on the "nothing" the current board have to offer)

2 ) The current board are NOT on the verge of selling us, and in fact are preparing for the gradual deconstruction of a side they gambled on making them the money they hoped would save their collective asses, but failed, and we will start afresh, with a new wage cap imposed, and the top earners being sold off for whatever profit we can get, forcing Moyes to:

a ) Walk, which would save THEM a lot of money in the process, as they would not need to honour his contract, or...

b ) Try building a 2nd faze team based on a younger, better nucleus than the side he initially transformed some 9 years ago, with the same limited resources he had back then, and with more of an emphasis on lower league, unproven, younger and academy graduating players providing the bulk of his squad...

My personal belief, is that we are most likely to see Route 2b, given that Moyes himself is not stupid, and would not be given the same benefit of the doubt at 99% of other clubs, and has not done enough to prove he could manage a side in the Elite. In short, Everton suits Moyes as much as Moyes suits Everton.

I have given up hope that we will be sold, especially seen as there is now talk that Tranmere are being linked with new owners. I’m not for one minute suggesting that same group would have the finances to take over Everton, as I don’t have enough information on the matter, but the fact they are seriously being linked with a takeover while we seem no closer than we where 4/5 years ago, suggests we are not as "for sale" as our honest, trustworthy and down right decent Chairman would have us believe.

…Ahem…

Anyway, back to the title of my thread...

In the event that route 2b is taken, and if we can persuade certain younger key players to stick around and give us 4 years to try again, who is there that we can get/use to replace the older, experienced heads that we have relied on so much, and which of the older heads would you select to stick around?

Essentially, what would be the backbone of our squad after potential sales, and hypothetical/realistic signings?

I am assuming here that Cahill, for his influence and image alone would be one to stay, and I am hopeful that we would keep at least one of Rodwell/Fellaini...

For me, any or all of the following would be "up for grabs" if we had a decent offer, not least to lose the wages...

Saha
Arteta
Yobo
Yakubu
Anichebe
Heitinga
Hibbert
Osman
Neville
Mucha
Turner
Vaughan

Surely, we could get £40m+ for these, and get some younger, hungrier, cheaper players in to replace them...

It may take us another 4 years to slowly build back to a side capable of challenging the "top 4", maybe sooner with a bit of luck, but I believe it can be done with the core of players who are left, combined with the youngsters coming through, and maybe a few new signings who might have a point to prove.

We have become stale and complacent, and with no impending takeover, maybe now is the time to be ruthless and proactive, before it’s too late.

 

[Tubey]

I think we should cut and run on Bilyaletdinov, Saha, Heitinga, Neville, Anichebe, Vaughan, Yakubu, Mucha and Yobo.

That's a big chunk of our squad, but if it means we keep Fellaini and Rodwell here with change to improve the squad, you can't really say any of those nine would be a big loss.

But we'd have to bring in four or five solid additions if that was the case, so sadly I can envisage the likes of Neville, Saha and Anichebe staying around

 

[BlueTak]

The only players we could really make decent money are our best ones.

Like Fellaini, Rodwell, Baines, Heitinga and Jagielka.

No one will pay money for a player like Saha who's too injury prone,We might get a £5million each for Yak and Yobo.
Osman, Hibbo and the rest would rake in a couple of million at most.

We won't have enough money to rebuild a capable squad without selling our best players.

 

[daz4matty]

I think we should cut and run on Bilyaletdinov, Saha, Heitinga, Neville, Anichebe, Vaughan, Yakubu, Mucha and Yobo.

That's a big chunk of our squad, but if it means we keep Fellaini and Rodwell here with change to improve the squad, you can't really say any of those nine would be a big loss.

But we'd have to bring in four or five solid additions if that was the case, so sadly I can envisage the likes of Neville, Saha and Anichebe staying around

I see your point the only problem is any money we get in or save ends up in a black hole and is never seen again.

 

[teppic]

There is not enough money for loan players.

Anyone we sell the bank will take at least half.

Hopefully city still think Arteta is worth 20 mill.

Wow. Just wow. This season has been one long downer.

 

[blue61]

As much as I would like to see Fellaini stay I think without our club showing the ambition required to make him stay he's on his way (grinds teeth). So 30 £million from Chelsea plus the old guard already mentioned in the original post would raise about 50 £million, then offer Arsenal Hibbert, Anichebe and Osman in a straight swap for that Wilshire lad to replace Fellaini, easy!

 

[alan ball]

If we have a clearout in the summer we will be left with a decent 5 a side team!

 

[Kever10]

See, the point I was initially aiming at, was if we sold a host of senior players who are on big wages and not performing to the standards they once where, or, maybe they are at their peak in terms of sell on value, how many of them could be replaced by younger players, either those coming through the ranks or those realistically affordable and attainable.

I realise some of the replacements are not going to instantly have the same abilities and experience levels of the players who leave, but there has to be cross over point in terms of ability, value, potential and cost...

For example, if we could theoretically sell Heitinga for £10/12m, is the gap he leaves in the squad, given his value and ability to the team, greater than the potential of Duffy/Mustafi to fill it? Obviously, if he was being touted at £4m, then I would say the risk was too great, to sell for such a small price and to expect 1 of the others to step up. But at that price, and with both of the players mentioned ready to step in, surely that gamble is worthwhile. I mean these are 2 highly rated young players, and that faith/confidence shown in them may well be the making of them.

The same can then be applied across the board, examples given against the list of players I mentioned as to older players on big wages we could essentially sell, and any youngsters who could try and fill the void:

Saha - Vellios? (LOL)
Arteta - Barkley?
Yobo - Dier?
Yakubu - Silva?
Anichebe - Abdulayev?
Heitinga - Duffy?
Hibbert - Garbutt?
Osman - Wallace?
Neville - Mustafi?
Mucha - Springthorpe?
Turner - ...errm...?
Vaughan - Hope?

Obviously these players are not going to be instantly ready to replace these players from the get go, the experience they bring, etc, but if you could bring in £40m + on these players, and have these younger players ready to step into the 1st team squad and join your core senior squad of your remaining players...

Howard
Coleman
Jagielka
Distin
Baines
Rodwell
Fellaini
Bilyaletdinov
Cahill
Beckford
Baxter

...The focus then would be to use the money received to bring in a handful of younger players of potential, before their values reach a premium, paying particular attention to the attacking positions, and continue to develop the side around that potential.

Most of the players I have listed are no better in terms of ability to those that could replace them (I did say most) and additionally, most are now at a stage whereby if we do not sell, they will have soon have no sell on value. The greatest commodity we would lose is experience, but the great thing about that, is players can only gain experience by playing, and their potential replacements would have more opportunity to do that.

I'm not suggesting this is the best or only way to go, just a thought.

P.S. The reason for the LOL after the Vellios quip, is I realised how ludicrous that comparison (to Saha) was, given the age and strength of the league he came from. But given I would use the majority of the available funds on new attacking players, I shouldn’t imagine this loss would be as great as that particular comparison would suggest.

 

[Phenom]

See, the point I was initially aiming at, was if we sold a host of senior players who are on big wages and not performing to the standards they once where, or, maybe they are at their peak in terms of sell on value, how many of them could be replaced by younger players, either those coming through the ranks or those realistically affordable and attainable.

I realise some of the replacements are not going to instantly have the same abilities and experience levels of the players who leave, but there has to be cross over point in terms of ability, value, potential and cost...

For example, if we could theoretically sell Heitinga for £10/12m, is the gap he leaves in the squad, given his value and ability to the team, greater than the potential of Duffy/Mustafi to fill it? Obviously, if he was being touted at £4m, then I would say the risk was too great, to sell for such a small price and to expect 1 of the others to step up. But at that price, and with both of the players mentioned ready to step in, surely that gamble is worthwhile. I mean these are 2 highly rated young players, and that faith/confidence shown in them may well be the making of them.

The same can then be applied across the board, examples given against the list of players I mentioned as to older players on big wages we could essentially sell, and any youngsters who could try and fill the void:

Saha - Vellios? (LOL)
Arteta - Barkley?
Yobo - Dier?
Yakubu - Silva?
Anichebe - Abdulayev?
Heitinga - Duffy?
Hibbert - Garbutt?
Osman - Wallace?
Neville - Mustafi?
Mucha - Springthorpe?
Turner - ...errm...?
Vaughan - Hope?

Obviously these players are not going to be instantly ready to replace these players from the get go, the experience they bring, etc, but if you could bring in £40m + on these players, and have these younger players ready to step into the 1st team squad and join your core senior squad of your remaining players...

Howard
Coleman
Jagielka
Distin
Baines
Rodwell
Fellaini
Bilyaletdinov
Cahill
Beckford
Baxter...The focus then would be to use the money received to bring in a handful of younger players of potential, before their values reach a premium, paying particular attention to the attacking positions, and continue to develop the side around that potential.

Most of the players I have listed are no better in terms of ability to those that could replace them (I did say most) and additionally, most are now at a stage whereby if we do not sell, they will have soon have no sell on value. The greatest commodity we would lose is experience, but the great thing about that, is players can only gain experience by playing, and their potential replacements would have more opportunity to do that.

I'm not suggesting this is the best or only way to go, just a thought.

P.S. The reason for the LOL after the Vellios quip, is I realised how ludicrous that comparison (to Saha) was, given the age and strength of the league he came from. But given I would use the majority of the available funds on new attacking players, I shouldn’t imagine this loss would be as great as that particular comparison would suggest.

That team does not excite me one bit looks an awful balance.

Who the hell would play RM, cahill is certaintly not a RM.

Relying on a unproven championship striker to get us goals is risky to say the least. (I like beckford but he needs to be given time)

Pairing baxter with him is just awful, I dont think he will make it plus that is one lightweight frontline, neither of them are messi esque.

Bily still has to be given time hopefully he will get used to the pace of the game.

 

[peteblue]

I think we should cut and run on Bilyaletdinov, Saha, Heitinga, Neville, Anichebe, Vaughan, Yakubu, Mucha and Yobo.

That's a big chunk of our squad, but if it means we keep Fellaini and Rodwell here with change to improve the squad, you can't really say any of those nine would be a big loss.

But we'd have to bring in four or five solid additions if that was the case, so sadly I can envisage the likes of Neville, Saha and Anichebe staying around

Apart from seeing how Bily does for the rest of the season, this should be Daveys blueprint.......

 

[Kever10]

That team does not excite me one bit looks an awful balance.

Who the hell would play RM, cahill is certaintly not a RM.

Relying on a unproven championship striker to get us goals is risky to say the least. (I like beckford but he needs to be given time)

Pairing baxter with him is just awful, I dont think he will make it plus that is one lightweight frontline, neither of them are messi esque.

Bily still has to be given time hopefully he will get used to the pace of the game.

Sorry man, i didnt actually mean to have that as starting 11, it just so happened they where the remaining players after the hypothetical clearout...

Its lame that our squad is so small and we are still so financialy hamstrung...

But i suppose by having the bulk of the squad as youngsters the wage bill would be significantly reduced. And if your highest earners where Fellaini etc, its something to strive towards. Become as useful as him, earn as much as him...

For the record though, i would be inclined to give Baxter a run out in an advanced role. Hes not an out and out striker, but he has a good footballing brain and a history of scoring goals at every level hes played. In his brain and his touch alone, he is already better than Anichebe and Vaughan will ever be.

Also, its not like weve had loads of success with our other forward pairings.

Give him a go, i say.

 

[njligernj]

Seemingly, on here, there are 2 schools of thought:

I think you've ignored the third school of thought which is just that we're on a shoestring budget and come the Jan window, when we were going to fall about 4m short in year-end revenue, it meant we couldn't get anyone new in (not even loans) and had to dump some salary to help balance the books. It doesn't mean they are about to destruct the club -- if you've been paying attention it's the way this club has always been run under BK. It sucks (and hopefully school 1, aka Damon, is right) but I don't think it's a sign of anything other than the fact we are a "paycheck to paycheck" type club (like we've always been) and they're going to get the books as close to 0 as possible every year.

 

[Cairns_Toffee]

The only players we could really make decent money are our best ones.

Like Fellaini, Rodwell, Baines, Heitinga and Jagielka.

No one will pay money for a player like Saha who's too injury prone,We might get a £5million each for Yak and Yobo.
Osman, Hibbo and the rest would rake in a couple of million at most.

We won't have enough money to rebuild a capable squad without selling our best players.

Agree with most of your points...

But wasn't there a offer for Saha at the start of the season from a French club?

I can't remeber exact details..but 4 to 8 mil wasn't it?

I maybe wrong of course but im also certain of it.

 

[Kever10]

I think you've ignored the third school of thought which is just that we're on a shoestring budget and come the Jan window, when we were going to fall about 4m short in year-end revenue, it meant we couldn't get anyone new in (not even loans) and had to dump some salary to help balance the books. It doesn't mean they are about to destruct the club -- if you've been paying attention it's the way this club has always been run under BK. It sucks (and hopefully school 1, aka Damon, is right) but I don't think it's a sign of anything other than the fact we are a "paycheck to paycheck" type club (like we've always been) and they're going to get the books as close to 0 as possible every year.

Yeah, but we made a loss this year, and next year will be worse... no europe (unless we win the cup, which come saturday, may no longer be an issue), no new sponsorship deal, no new distribution deal, no new belefield development, improved contract offers for half a dozen players... So if they want to get close to 0, they are going to have to do something drastic.

The Arteta contract last summer, was i believe, the final roll of the dice as far as the gamble goes, given it was our "best squad yet" etc. I dont believe we can afford to maintain a wage like his, especially given other players, current or new, will expect parity, especially given his performances this year.

And the fact the season has been such a disaster overall, means we are going to have to do more than get a couple of players to sign new contracts this summer. We will have to sign new players. And we are going to have to sell to buy, and most likely, sell for more to buy for less.

Which basically results in the dismantling of our current squad, in 1 way or another. It will either have to be more, older players, as i have suggested, or few younger players, as we all fear.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

Personally, I feel big change is neccessary to bring ourselves back to our overachieving heights of a couple of seasons ago. Buying younger hungrier (preferably british) players is the way forward.

I would only fight hard to keep the following players:

Baines, Jagielka, Coleman, Rodwell, Cahill.

I would add Fellaini to that list, but I have a bad feeling he will be our transfer budget for the summer, I think this window coming will be one of high staff turnover.

Bilyaletdinov, Heitinga, Vaughan, Fellaini, Anichebe, should all be sold come the summer. Nev Osman and Hibbert are going nowhere, but the others should bring great income and give us a chance to start again. Jennings from Tranmere would be a handy start.