Howard Out?

[gkpaul]

I think the feeling that Tim does not command his area enough, or is not good at dealing with high balls into the area is quite silly really. He came and claimed a few on Saturday and dealt perfect with them. That after he made the error when he might have crumbled under the pressure. Im happy he was able to forget the mistake whilst the game was still going on and concentrate on the game. That takes some doing in his position.

If people do believe Tim does not command his area etc then Shay Given is definitely not the answer! He will not end up at Arsenal as it is well known in goalkeeping circles that Wenger does not rate Given as he is poor in dealing with crosses. Hart flaps a lot too, just look how many he drops, but has always been lucky enough for it to not cost him, yet!

Claiming crosses is bread and butter for most keepers, but you can not come for everything despite the clichés that everything in the box is yours. The perfect example of this was at the other end of the pitch on Saturday. When Gomez first came to the Premier League he came for everything and dropped loads. Effected his confidence too. In the prem you just can not come for everything. He did and dropped loads, but in that time he actually claimed more crosses than any other premiership keeper, yet his drops were what mattered! Spurs never dropped him and they had, arguably, the best back up keeper in the league waiting in the wings.

I also hope Tim Krul being banded about is a joke! The same Tim Krul who was third choice behind Given and Harper!? The same Tim Krul who could not break into the Newcastle first team when they were in the championship!?

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Go and watch highlights of the Man U game again.

2 top class saves to keep us in the game, yet for Berbatovs goal as Berbatov is coming towards goal Howard literally stands there like a rabbit in the headlights.

 

[Neiler]

Go and watch highlights of the Man U game again.

2 top class saves to keep us in the game, yet for Berbatovs goal as Berbatov is coming towards goal Howard literally stands there like a rabbit in the headlights.

Agreed and that sumps him up really mate he has the ability to pull of excellent saves - shot stops, in term sof his all round positioning and other goal keeping attributes i dont think hes great.

Wheneer we conceade, i always ask myslelf could the keeper have have done better there, a lot of the time you have to say yes.

The Brum game away last season, was perfect evidance of the differential in the quality, Hart kept Brum in the game and won them a point when we should have been 4 up before half time, Howard conceaded two soft goals in the second half he should have done better with.

Fact is for me he costs us points.

To be honest i dont think Mucha is the answer ansewr either after watching him a bit.

 

[Goat]

Lets get Shay Given or is Paddy Bonner still playing?

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Agreed and that sumps him up really mate he has the ability to pull of excellent saves - shot stops, in term sof his all round positioning and other goal keeping attributes i dont think hes great.

Wheneer we conceade, i always ask myslelf could the keeper have have done better there, a lot of the time you have to say yes.

The Brum game away last season, was perfect evidance of the differential in the quality, Hart kept Brum in the game and won them a point when we should have been 4 up before half time, Howard conceaded two soft goals in the second half he should have done better with.

Fact is for me he costs us points.

To be honest i dont think Mucha is the answer ansewr either after watching him a bit.

From what i remember the first brum goal was just a piss up all round really and not any fault of Howards, and the second was just a cracking strike from Jerome (i think it was him but whoever) after our defence failed to deal with a long ball.

But both in that grey area really, obviously he could of done better and saved them but he didn't make a mistake to let them in and its equally possible no keeper in the world could of saved them. Certainly couldn't say for sure if someone like Hart would of saved them.

I think if we got a true top class keeper we'd notice the difference, yet if we got Almunia we'd be begging for Tim to come back.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

A clean sheet is the sum of five parts, more often then not prob more, droping and flaping at the ball is an individual error that costs us points its as simple as that really.

Although that is harsh focussing in on individual mistakes, ive never thought he was a very good all around keeper to be honest. His best period was the March - May 08-09. He looked like he had matured as a player (despite soft goals in the FA Cup run), unfortuantly that level of form has been transient.

Indeed, but if it happened as much as you say, he wouldn't have kept as many clean sheets as he has over the years. It's as simple as that really, more often than not, keepers are punished for individual errors, and there's no doubting Howard has made his fair share over the years, but he's not consistently error prone, no more than lots of the keepers being mentioned. As has been said, it's much easier to weigh up the strengths and weaknesses of a keeper you watch week in week out, that's a fair shout.

For example, I've come across City fans who say the same things about the mighty Shay Given. Great shot stopper but he's glued to his line more often than not, and rarely puts himself in positions where he can be exposed. It swings in roundabouts really.

My opinion is very few of us know how to judge keepers, I'm certainly no expert, I've never took much interest in the position, and my knowledge of the role is average. I think that's the case for alot of people in this thread. Not necessarily aimed at you, you might know your stuff, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Neiler]

Indeed, but if it happened as much as you say, he wouldn't have kept as many clean sheets as he has over the years. It's as simple as that really, more often than not, keepers are punished for individual errors, and there's no doubting Howard has made his fair share over the years, but he's not consistently error prone, no more than lots of the keepers being mentioned. As has been said, it's much easier to weigh up the strengths and weaknesses of a keeper you watch week in week out, that's a fair shout.

For example, I've come across City fans who say the same things about the mighty Shay Given. Great shot stopper but he's glued to his line more often than not, and rarely puts himself in positions where he can be exposed. It swings in roundabouts really.

My opinion is very few of us know how to judge keepers, I'm certainly no expert, I've never took much interest in the position, and my knowledge of the role is average. I think that's the case for alot of people in this thread. Not necessarily aimed at you, you might know your stuff, but that's just my opinion.

Which is a very neutral to way to look at it to be honest, yes keepers are prone to mistakes that prove costly, individual errors will always be more highlighted as they tend to cost games. As i say this isnt a knee jerk in regard to recent errors its been my consistent opinion for sometime, he can occasionaly be a good shot stopper in fact on his day one of the best - that said i have seen caght out on a few outside the box psoitionaly.

There are many aspects of his game, such as mentality, concentration, positioning, physicality, ability to confidently collect a ball and his command his area, communicate with the back four and make desisive speedy decisons. Its an opionion not based on one or two lapses but consistently over his time at he club, i have tried to give hom the benift fo doubt, but i just dont rate him anywhere in the top 10 in league which is a calibre of keeper we should be aiming for.

In terms of analyseing keepers performences, its actually one of the easiest positions to make a comparrison, as many have said its a position that gets highlighted a lot in terms of praise of ciriticsim and prob one that gets massive exposure for key points in a game. To be honest i think people are just happy when someone isnt shipping three goals a game.

I wouldnt be worrying about City fans assessment to be fair, Robhino and what not.

 

[nickydisco]

the blackburn game ! ?

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Which is a very neutral to way to look at it to be honest, yes keepers are prone to mistakes that prove costly, individual errors will always be more highlighted as they tend to cost games. As i say this isnt a knee jerk in regard to recent errors its been my consistent opinion for sometime, he can occasionaly be a good shot stopper in fact on his day one of the best - that said i have seen caght out on a few outside the box psoitionaly.

There are many aspects of his game, such as mentality, concentration, positioning, physicality, ability to confidently collect a ball and his command his area, communicate with the back four and make desisive speedy decisons. Its an opionion not based on one or two lapses but consistently over his time at he club, i have tried to give hom the benift fo doubt, but i just dont rate him anywhere in the top 10 in league which is a calibre of keeper we should be aiming for.

In terms of analyseing keepers performences, its actually one of the easiest positions to make a comparrison, as many have said its a position that gets highlighted a lot in terms of praise of ciriticsim and prob one that gets massive exposure for key points in a game. To be honest i think people are just happy when someone isnt shipping three goals a game.

I wouldnt be worrying about City fans assessment to be fair, Robhino and what not.

It's a fair point though, no question about it. We see the weaknesses of our players more than we do with players of other clubs, especially keepers.

But I have no problems with anything else in that post, you have been consistent in your opinion of him. Fair play.

 

[Neiler]

To be honest Hart deserves his spot over Shay at the mo, hes not looking match sharp and hasnt been at his best in recent games. Could be father time but i suspect hes just not happy, i think if he could turn back the clock he would have stayed at Newcastle, consistently been a top top keeper, i was in SJP the day he signed for City and there where a fair few tears by those who knew him best up there.

Is and will be very shortly still one of the best keepers around, would love to have him here, wont happen though!