How long did Moyes hold us back for ?

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He moved us on, but that momentum stopped when he got us constantly finishing top 8. Thats the type of a manager he his, he can turn most teams into a top 8 side.

His lack of vision will hold him back as a manager
 

Should have been sacked after we finished 17th in 2003-2004.

After all any manager who failed to get us relegated would have achieved as much in real terms as moyes ever did in the seasons subsequently.
 
Zaschrona said:
To be fair, 99% other managers would do worse job here than Moyes. It is way more about fantastic Roberto, than a really bad David.
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I don't know why you would say that. You've got no evidence to support that quite extreme claim at all. The fact that Martinez has walked in here and immediately done a better job than moyes ever did points wise at least works against you.
 
Had my doubts as the Rooney saga unfolded when he seemed utterly clueless also hearing big Dunc had gone in and put Moyes in his place had me worrying he wasn't just quiet but a bit thick.

In 2009 it was so predictable we would go down without a whimper in the chelsea final that was me done with him. His limitations were as clear as day.

We stagnated indulging his limitations and delusions while he waited for a "better" job.

But I don't blame him at all not even his behaviour re Felli and Baines because he was created at castle Goodison a grotesque Frankenstein of a manager hiding in the shadows till now.

His true lumbering incoherent visage has been released upon unsuspecting villagers from afar and now Pitch forks and lit torches are being distributed.

He didn't just hold us back he made EFC frightened - scandalous.
 
toffeejack said:
i've never said the job he done was average or anything. i only feel he stagnated in the last couple of seasons where we kept getting into positions to improve i.e. qualify for europe and we just didn't. he kept bottling it due to his management skills only. nothing to do with net spend or the players he had available.

i think the fact that martinez has shown that we can be improved under the same circumstances means that he did hold us back in a way, the same way, as you say, another manager would have made us worse.

stagnation is holding back, because it's not achieving the maximum potential.
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To achieve maximum potential is the same as quoting NSNO, a nice sentiment but that's 3 points every game and both cups.
To improve us against the odds, cannot be holding us back by any definition except an impossible to fulfill one.
Martinez could win every game but one in which he drew but that still doesn't satisfy your quote.
 

End of the progression was 2009, end of the road was Sunderland 2-2 game or the Newcastle 2-1 game in my eyes. After Sunderland I wanted him to walk from his contract because it was the worst performance in terms of trying to win a game I can remember. If we don't turn up at all and get turned over I can just about accept, but defending in our own box after 6 minutes is something that clearly meant moyes had ran his course here.

Personally I expected a drop this season so to echo them lot this season has surpassed my expectations.
 
Kev The Rat said:
I don't know why you would say that. You've got no evidence to support that quite extreme claim at all. The fact that Martinez has walked in here and immediately done a better job than moyes ever did points wise at least works against you.
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Martinez is fking ace though mate which does help his argument a lot.
 
Ihaters said:
To achieve maximum potential is the same as quoting NSNO, a nice sentiment but that's 3 points every game and both cups.
To improve us against the odds, cannot be holding us back by any definition except an impossible to fulfill one.
Martinez could win every game but one in which he drew but that still doesn't satisfy your quote.
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knew i was going to regret posting those two words haha.

MP within means. but then that's up for debate of opinion what that constitutes ha
 
toffeejack said:
knew i was going to regret posting those two words haha.

MP within means. but then that's up for debate of opinion what that constitutes ha
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Yep, you knew it was coming lol
Within his means should of had us way down the league, but we were not, we improved until we had the squad Martinez took over and improved again.
 
anyway, it's pointless looking at the past, we now have a manager who get's everton.

he's brought the pride back that we needed from a manager i.e. duncan, kendall, school of science, talking up our history etc..

moyes could have won us the league, but still would have talked down the club as small - that's not what we are.
 

Ihaters said:
Yep, you knew it was coming lol
Within his means should of had us way down the league, but we were not, we improved until we had the squad Martinez took over and improved again.
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i just think we had the squad 3 years ago to at least attempt what we're doing now. as shown the quality of football we were playing at the start of last season. a better manager would have had us continuing that throught the season, like martinez had.

onwards and upwards, anyway.
 
He set's team out to not loose, today he tried the opposite tbf but still didn't work, he never had a winning mentality and managers like that can only go up to 5th really, doesn't matter how much money there is
 
toffeejack said:
i just think we had the squad 3 years ago to at least attempt what we're doing now. as shown the quality of football we were playing at the start of last season. a better manager would have had us continuing that throught the season, like martinez had.

onwards and upwards, anyway.
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Not saying Martinez isn't better, I'm saying Moyes didn't hold us back and subsequently did the opposite by improving us.
Ultimately, Martinez has achieved the same as people moan Moyes did so far... He hasn't won silverware and sits outside the CL position.. But its progress so it isn't holding us back, its pushing us forwards, which is what Moyes did, just Martinez did it more spectacularly.
 

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