Holgate Racially Abused By Firmino - The Guardian

[cjuk87]

It's nothing to do with lying though.

The most logical conclusion I can draw from the way everybody involved reacted is that Holgate misheard something that was said, so he genuinely believes he was abused, but Firmino didn't actually say what he thought he said. Holgate's sudden loss of composure strongly suggests that he's not lying, but the lack of reaction from everybody else in the vicinity makes it seem unlikely that something totally out of order was said.

Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of it, but that seems to me to be the most likely scenario.

Could've been mouthed to him. I often mouthed insults at my sister silently infront of my mum and dad

 

[Lanolin]

Could've been mouthed to him. I often mouthed insults at my sister silently infront of my mum and dad

Yeah it's obviously possible. Was nobody else looking at him though? As I said, not claiming that's definitely what happened, just seems the most logical explanation from what we know so far.

 

[joey_macmo]

It's nothing to do with lying though.

The most logical conclusion I can draw from the way everybody involved reacted is that Holgate misheard something that was said, so he genuinely believes he was abused, but Firmino didn't actually say what he thought he said. Holgate's sudden loss of composure strongly suggests that he's not lying, but the lack of reaction from everybody else in the vicinity makes it seem unlikely that something totally out of order was said.

Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of it, but that seems to me to be the most likely scenario.

Again this means absolutely nothing, Kuyt was literally right next to Suarez & Evra as he was pinching his skin calling him negro repeatedly and he didnt hear a thing.

"I don't speak to blacks", he (Mr Evra) said "Ahora te voy a dar realmente una porrada", which means "OK, now I think I'm going to punch you". To this he says that Mr Suárez replied "Dale, negro...negro...negro". At the time Mr Evra understood this to mean "OK, [Poor language removed], [Poor language removed], [Poor language removed]". He now says it means "OK, blackie, blackie, blackie". The expert witnesses stated that the phrase "Dale, negro" can be understood as "Bring it on, blackie" or "do it, blackie" or "go ahead, blackie".


Mr Evra said that as Mr Suárez was speaking he reached out to touch Mr Evra's arm, gesturing at his skin. Mr Evra said that Mr Suárez was drawing attention to the colour of Mr Evra's skin. This gesture is clearly shown on the video footage, just as Mr Kuyt comes between them.

 

[Sarnia Kevin]

I'm still waiting for the HSE to charge LFC with having inadequate safety barriers around the pitch. Surely the barrier should be high enough to prevent (allegedly) racist footballers falling onto the spectators

 

[Lanolin]

Again this means absolutely nothing, Kuyt was literally right next to Suarez & Evra as he was pinching his skin calling him negro repeatedly and he didnt hear a thing.

As I've said - twice - i'm not claiming to know what happened, simply saying what appears to be the most logical conclusion to draw based on the evidence available. I was replying to somebody who said one of the players was lying, by saying that is not necessarily the case. I'm simply taking the stance that both of them are innocent until proven otherwise.

The Kuyt example doesn't really work as a comparison either, as in that case the two players were speaking to eachother in a language which they both understood, but which Kuyt didn't. It was therefore perfectly understandable that he didn't react, as he didn't know what was being said. In this case, either Firmino would be speaking English and therefore understood by everybody around him, or Portuguese, which is unlikely to have been understood by Holgate.

 

[cjuk87]

As I've said - twice - i'm not claiming to know what happened, simply saying what appears to be the most logical conclusion to draw based on the evidence available. I was replying to somebody who said one of the players was lying, by saying that is not necessarily the case. I'm simply taking the stance that both of them are innocent until proven otherwise.

The Kuyt example doesn't really work as a comparison either, as in that case the two players were speaking to eachother in a language which they both understood, but which Kuyt didn't. It was therefore perfectly understandable that he didn't react, as he didn't know what was being said. In this case, either Firmino would be speaking English and therefore understood by everybody around him, or Portuguese, which is unlikely to have been understood by Holgate.

If a man shouted negro, negro, negro, negro next to me, i'd understand it...

 

[joey_macmo]

As I've said - twice - i'm not claiming to know what happened, simply saying what appears to be the most logical conclusion to draw based on the evidence available. I was replying to somebody who said one of the players was lying, by saying that is not necessarily the case. I'm simply taking the stance that both of them are innocent until proven otherwise.

The Kuyt example doesn't really work as a comparison either, as in that case the two players were speaking to eachother in a language which they both understood, but which Kuyt didn't. It was therefore perfectly understandable that he didn't react, as he didn't know what was being said. In this case, either Firmino would be speaking English and therefore understood by everybody around him, or Portuguese, which is unlikely to have been understood by Holgate.

Language is irrelevant, he was repeatedly calling him a negro and pinching his skin whilst doing it.

The only way he couldn't react to that is if he didnt hear it.

 

[TheFinnFan]

There must be something in this. If there was zero visual evidence and the players involved and the referee all state the didn't hear anything then the player would have been found no guilty by now. That doens't mean Holgate lied - his reaction is absolutely genuine but you have to have evidence. I would have thought the FA whilst being thorough in their investigation would have made some a statement by now because they don't want a something like this just hanging around like a bad smell. It's been nearly a month now, my guess is some evidence has come to light that back Holgates claims

They are dragging this. RS pulling all the strings. You are absolutely right if there would be nothing innit Liverpool would have shouted that all over the shop already

 

[joey_macmo]

If a man shouted negro, negro, negro, negro next to me, i'd understand it...

exactly, absolutely mental to think otherwise.

 

[coltefc]

They are dragging this. RS pulling all the strings. You are absolutely right if there would be nothing innit Liverpool would have shouted that all over the shop already

If one of us supporters was waiting to be charged with racism and found guilty,we would be banned from all grounds, so if that rat gets done I hope we ban him from the old lady for say 5 years and then say to the FA what are you going to do about it.

 

[Lanolin]

If a man shouted negro, negro, negro, negro next to me, i'd understand it...

Language is irrelevant, he was repeatedly calling him a negro and pinching his skin whilst doing it.

The only way he couldn't react to that is if he didnt hear it.

exactly, absolutely mental to think otherwise.

Shouted it? Is that what the evidence said? Or what Evra claimed? It's not is it? You just made it up to make your argument sound better. The hearing suggests that they were having a conversation while stood next to eachother, there's no indication anyone would be shouting anything. I also think you might find it harder than you think to hear something said in conversation in a foreign language and process what the context might be (bear in mind that Suarez didn't just say 'negro negro negro', it was all part of a 2 way exchange in Spanish, so was likely being spoken quickly and surrounded by other words you don't understand.

Anyway, i'll stick to waiting for evidence that someone's guilty of something, and you two go ahead and hang someone because of tribal loyalties.

 

[AsiaAsia82]

Heard the FA are trying to get an alternative meaning for the word Firmoino used into the Oxford dictionary before the issue their report..

 

[bignev23]

I'd hate to sit in front of a jury full of posters from this thread, they'd be more suited to a lynch mob... Which is ironic.

 

[davek]

Liverpool fans are increasingly worried about the outcome of the Firmino/Holgate case

https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/liverpo...the-outcome-of-the-firminoholgate-case-160086

 

[davek]

This 'kin scumbag in the Daily Hate Martin Samuels:

Racism claims hit a dead end

Still no news from the Football Association on the accusations of racism between Roberto Firmino and Mason Holgate, and Gaetan Bong and Jay Rodriguez. The clubs — Liverpool, Everton, Brighton and West Brom — support their players.

There do not appear to be witnesses to provide clarity, referees and team-mates seem not to have heard anything and match footage was inconclusive, so it is the word of one man against another.

How is the FA supposed to solve that — and how falsely ambitious is it to believe every incident has an adequate resolution? It is a desperately hard admission to make but, sometimes, where do you go?

"Does not appear to have...does not seem to have".

How would that 'kin mess know?