Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[neil999]

pat glass who was appointed 48 hours ago and is a corybn loyalist has just resigned, ermm?

 

[TheBlueGibbon]

pat glass who was appointed 48 hours ago and is a corybn loyalist has just resigned, ermm?

She'd already announced she was standing down as an MP at the next election whenever that is.

 

[neil999]

She'd already announced she was standing down as an MP at the next election whenever that is.

careerist! oh...

 

[catcherintherye]

I see, and how is Corbyn going to stop the austerity post-Brexit budget, and any number of things an in power Tory party will kick the poorest with in the future?

Well in fairness how is any Labour leader going to stop a post Tory austerity budget? They have a minority in the Houses of Parliament so there is little bureaucratically they can do. I suppose his strategy will be the same as it's been this year which will be firm opposition which on issues such as Welfare and Education has proven to be successful thus far.

I do think there has to be realism though. Corbyn cannot stop the Tories if they remain United for another 4 years. If that's the standard expected of him he will fail, just as any other leader would.

 

[magicjuan]

when i say protest party i mean single/a few issues, the party has changed massively it hasnt been a 'protest' party for decades

i suppose it comes down to what are labours primary beliefs/policies and who has ownership of them

why should the centerists split off and not the far left?

Because the 'centrists' are further to the right than the center, Blairism saw to that, therefore not really centrist but right light

 

[catcherintherye]

Few things (hate doing lists but easiest way):

1 - Definitely should be a two way thing. However, if the leader is stonewalling progress, that two way system falls on its' arse immediately.

2 - Agree he was looking for consensus, and never getting it. That's one of my problems with him - he never leads. He should be able to take views and rationally come to a decision based on them and lead. His party represents their constituents, so when he's in the job, the party should be the priority, not the membership. With Trident and a myriad of other things, he failed in that task.

3 - Trident makes him unelectable as it's an easy thing to hit him with for the opposition, and a red line for many people in the country. It'd be tossing the Tories a light ball to bat out the park. That's one of the reasons any Tory will demolish him in an election, and most core Labour voters over the last 25 years are unable to vote for Corbyn. I'd have to abstain from the GE, for example.

4 - The SNP are a protest party in the system we have - indeed, a one issue protest party in terms of independence. If they ran for Westminster and had Trident as an issue, that support would slip (and indeed they'd get hardly any votes in England whatsoever). So not really a comparison.

5 - I disagree with your last paragraph. He hasn't tried to represent his party; instead he's represented himself, his best mates and the membership. If that was enough to win an election, then fine, as that's his remit. It isn't though.

6 - Eagle is a liar, yes.

I am partial to a list, so no bother with that mate!

We can agree on Trident in as much as it wasn't a necessary intervention at that time. I have to say though, outside the rantings of Blairite MP's I have seen scant little evidence that this is an issue one way or another at the doorstep, from polling or from subsequent. It's a none issue so very silly on all sides to take it so seriously.

It's fine saying the Tories would demolish him at an election. That is your opinion and it may well be the case. However you can make any leader in the world be replaced by stating they will be demolished. Thus far in elections that Corbyn has faced the Tories have not demolished him anywhere. The reality is if there were any demolishing being done it would be from Corbyn to the Tory's. I am unsure what would happen at an election but evidence thus far would state Corbyn's performance looks quite optimistic. The London Mayoral election was a particularly big swing.

The SNP may be a protest party, but they are also a party that forms a government in their country and has 95% of seats in the Westminster election. It's simply untrue to say if they ran for Westminster on that basis they would slip, when they did run for Westminster and wiped out Labour. A dominant party in their country has run on the basis of explicit anti-trident sentiment and at times anti-Nato sentiment and won. Unless you think Scotland is qualitative different to England to automatically assume it would lead to a massacre doesn't seem to fit the evidence. Again much like Corbyn the Tories haven't massacred the SNP, far from it they themselves have been massacred by the SNP alongside everyone else (including a Labour Party that supported Trident!)

I think there is an inherent contradiction in saying he hasn't represented the party then saying he has represented the membership. For me a party is it's members. That is how decisions should be made, policies decided, positions taken. The alternative we are being given is 170 millionaire MP's choose not the 400,000 members.

I appreciate people are pointing out it's about the voters and it is. But how do MP's honestly think they can connect to the 8 million voters when they so brazenly go to war with their own membership? They also have no hegemony over what the voters think. The Voters have rejected the vision Labour have given them in the last 2 elections and in England they have probably convinced in 1 election in about 40 years. Why do these tiny group of MP's suddenly think they are in a better position to reflect what the strategy should be over the hundreds of thousands of ordinary people who work in communities with Labour voters?

I saw David Blunket yesterday waffling on about Corbyn has to go as he hasn't won 12 million voters (or shown he can). Labour have only managed to get 12 million votes once in the last 46 years. Yet Corbyn is expected to have done that within 10 months of his appointment having taken over a party ran into the ground by Blunket and his ilk to the point whereby they were polling mid 20's. If that was the aim why is every Labour MP currently thrown out, as they have all shown no ability to get to 12 million votes including Blunket himself.

 

[TheFinnFan]

Why is this thread alive. I would want to see "a button" that makes certain threads go away.
@GrandOldTeam

 

[jal123]

Says it all when the Prime Minister is saying in Parliament that it would be great for him and his party if Jeremy stayed.

Jesus.

Also, people who haven't been in the job for 3 days yet are resigning from his shadow cabinet.

This is hugely embarrassing for the Labour Party, and if he was as principled as you lot would have us believe he'd have resigned by now.

 

[magicjuan]

Says it all when the Prime Minister is saying in Parliament that it would be great for him and his party if Jeremy stayed.

Jesus.

Also, people who haven't been in the job for 3 days yet are resigning from his shadow cabinet.

This is hugely embarrassing for the Labour Party, and if he was as principled as you lot would have us believe he'd have resigned by now.

I would support his resination on the basis that all current MPs do likewise. Those who don't wish to follow the existing practices of the labour party and its affiliates can gather and form an alternative group. They can devise their own funding model, recruit new members, strategise and proceed to the promised middle ground.
And they can't call it labour or new labour.
Would, could, should that happren?

 

[jal123]

I would support his resination on the basis that all current MPs do likewise. Those who don't wish to follow the existing practices of the labour party and its affiliates can gather and form an alternative group. They can devise their own funding model, recruit new members, strategise and proceed to the promised middle ground.
And they can't call it labour or new labour.
Would, could, should that happren?

Resigning as leader doesn't mean he is no longer an MP, they're resigning from their positions in his shadow cabinet not as Members of Parliament, so I don't really understand the relevancy of them breaking away and forming a new party?

 

[Milkman]

Says it all when the Prime Minister is saying in Parliament that it would be great for him and his party if Jeremy stayed.

Jesus.

Also, people who haven't been in the job for 3 days yet are resigning from his shadow cabinet.

This is hugely embarrassing for the Labour Party, and if he was as principled as you lot would have us believe he'd have resigned by now.

No mate, that wouldn't be principled, that would be UNprincipled.

 

[hullefc]

Hahaha. Some people are using Cameron as a stick to beat Corbyn with. Let's remind ourselves that Cameron, who was rejected by the electorate over the EU. The latest vote not the one in 2015. A general election should have been called on Friday 'in the national interest' and not to halt the civil war in the Tory party.

 

[jal123]

Hahaha. Some people are using Cameron as a stick to beat Corbyn with. Let's remind ourselves that Cameron is against Corbyn, who was rejected by the electorate over the EU. The latest vote not the one in 2015. A general election should have been called on Friday 'in the national interest' and not to halt the civil war in the Tory party.

I absolutely was not using Cameron as a stick to beat Corbyn with, I was making a point that the Conservative party are absolutely delighted that JC is taking every bit of attention away from their infighting, leadership election etc.

 

[magicjuan]

Says it all when the Prime Minister is saying in Parliament that it would be great for him and his party if Jeremy stayed.

Jesus.

Also, people who haven't been in the job for 3 days yet are resigning from his shadow cabinet.

This is hugely embarrassing for the Labour Party, and if he was as principled as you lot would have us believe he'd have resigned by now.

The noise is becoming just that now, noise.
What is the next move? What are the values the next leader can offer, because you have to exclude loyalty, integrity, honesty and to a large extent sincerity, unfortunately traits that the people of the country are crying out for from westminster

I could have appreciated a challenge to Corbyn if the timing was more appropriate, it wasn't such a vicious personal attack in the public eye using hideous media spin tactics and underhand techniques.
All these self centred people have done is ruined the chance of damagingvthe tories when they are at their most vulnerable. Not very clever really and way beyond politically naive into complete self interest and selfishness. If anyone has been shown to be unelectable it is them . For god's sake, blaming him for brexit? Ridiculous

 

[magicjuan]

Resigning as leader doesn't mean he is no longer an MP, they're resigning from their positions in his shadow cabinet not as Members of Parliament, so I don't really understand the relevancy of them breaking away and forming a new party?

You don't understand the relevance? I find that stupefying to be honest.