Harry Catterick

alvinh · November 17, 2019

roy vernon said:
Funny thing about the cat, he was always thought of as a big money spending ‘chequebook’ style manager,and, if you are talking of his 63 champions then, perhaps, that was the case. The side which won the title in 70 (which, having watched both teams) I rated as the better one had 6 regular starters who came through Everton youth system. Tommy Wright, Brian Labone, John Hurst, Colin Harvey, Jimmy Husband and Joe Royle. When Labone was injured another product of the youth system, Roger Kenyon stepped in and when Jimmy husband was injured Alan Whittle, Tom Davies’ uncle, stepped up to play such an important role at the end of the season.

For a chequebook manager, he didn’t half give the kids a chance.

Maybe some of that perception comes from the 'Mersey millionaires' tag and the glamour associate with the Moores pool fortune? Either way it's a good point.

BigMick · November 18, 2019

davek said:
Sawyer presented him as a man of his day: a corporate manager rather than the charasmatic-manager that the football industry loves. Basically Catterick was projected as part of the Littlewoods bureacracy: a man who made decisions with business in mind. At the same time Sawyer underlined the complexity of the man by emphasising that he put together a team of exquisite ball players - culminating in the 1969-70 champions.

alvinh said:
Maybe some of that perception comes from the 'Mersey millionaires' tag and the glamour associate with the Moores pool fortune? Either way it's a good point.

Both of these are true. The 'Mersey Millionaires' tag could perhaps be applied to the 62/63 team, but from 64/65 until 68/70 we had a minus net spend in all but one season, the one where we signed Ball and Kendall. Moores well may have been a philanthropist but he ran Everton as a business, which Catterick accepted and implemented, hence the catastrophic sale of Ball for a 100% profit. Let us not forget the penny pinching we saw in the 70s which saw us fail to sign Shilton twice because we wouldn't meet his wage demands. We signed Georgie Wood, Clough signed Shilton and won a Championship and two European Cups.

As for Catterick, he wasn't the same after his heart attack. He used to travel miles to watch players numerous times before he signed them but cut down on his travelling after the attack - the way we were allowed to drift along in his absence and convalescence was a disgrace and not something any club could get away with today. Like all the best managers. though, he was prepared to make the big, and often unpopular, decisions: certain members of GOT would have been in uproar at some of them!

peteblue · November 18, 2019

davek said:
Wished I'd have seen them mate. I think the only one's left when I saw my first match at GP was Kenyon (who was on the periphery of HC's team), Darracott, Lyons and Gary Jones.

You missed a treat, Kenyon only played half a dozen times in the 69-70 team and I can’t remember any of the other three players getting a game....might be wrong though...,

davek · November 18, 2019

peteblue said:
You missed a treat, Kenyon only played half a dozen times in the 69-70 team and I can’t remember any of the other three players getting a game....might be wrong though...,

Like the 80s team, goof peripheral players on the edge of the first team: Whittle, Husband etc.

peteblue · November 18, 2019

davek said:
Like the 80s team, goof peripheral players on the edge of the first team: Whittle, Husband etc.

Jimmy Husband was a brilliant winger and Whittle certainly chipped in with a few goals...

degsy · November 18, 2019

peteblue said:
You missed a treat, Kenyon only played half a dozen times in the 69-70 team and I can’t remember any of the other three players getting a game....might be wrong though...,

iirc, 14 players, plus frank darcy was sub 5 or 6 times and Gerry Humphries played 1 game

peteblue · November 18, 2019

degsy said:
iirc, 14 players, plus frank darcy was sub 5 or 6 times and Gerry Humphries played 1 game

Just looked it up, 15 players plus the rest of your post, but for the life of me I cannot remember that Gerry Humphries...I’m getting too old......

BigMick · November 18, 2019

peteblue said:
Just looked it up, 15 players plus the rest of your post, but for the life of me I cannot remember that Gerry Humphries...I’m getting too old......

Gerry Humphreys - Welsh left winger, only played a handful of games, moved to Crystal Palace where I don't think he did much. Then went to Crewe where he played for several years. His dad played for us as well - centre-half I believe.

Sharpies volley · November 18, 2019

We should have won more, much more silverware under the Cat. Always seemed to blow the big games like WBA final, almost blew it in 66 and numerous semis. Could have gone down as an all time great. Still should really but a bit more silverware would have put him up there no argument. Still a great manager though. Should be held in higher esteem from people outside the club.

alvinh · November 22, 2019

I liked this Toffeeweb article about how Catterick rebuilt his side:

Patience?

www.toffeeweb.com

degsy · November 23, 2019

davek said:
Like the 80s team, good peripheral? players on the edge of the first team: Whittle, Husband etc.

I ~~think~~ or rather know Husband was a little bit more than a peripheral player. It came as no real surprise that Clough at Derby and Puskas at Panathinaikos had him chopped down, quick smart.
Think of a slightly bigger Sterling without the little t.rex arms who could shoot and head a ball as well... not quite early Ronaldo at United, but close.
Whittle did lack that final half yard of pace and sometime struggled to get past a fullback out wide one on one.
Think a bit of a cross between Bernard and David Silva with a dozen goals a season in him...he would've scored that goal Bernard did recently and tucked in a bit tighter on the right than Husband and worked his bum off.
And no I haven't got my blue tinted nostalgia specs on
So no, slightly better than peripheral.

davek · November 23, 2019

degsy said:
I ~~think~~ or rather know Husband was a little bit more than a peripheral player. It came as no real surprise that Clough at Derby and Puskas at Panathinaikos had him chopped down, quick smart.
Think of a slightly bigger Sterling without the little t.rex arms who could shoot and head a ball as well... not quite early Ronaldo at United, but close.
Whittle did lack that final half yard of pace and sometime struggled to get past a fullback out wide one on one.
Think a bit of a cross between Bernard and David Silva with a dozen goals a season in him...he would've scored that goal Bernard did recently and tucked in a bit tighter on the right than Husband and worked his bum off.
And no I haven't got my blue tinted nostalgia specs on
So no, slightly better than peripheral.

69/70 season:

42 games

Starts - Whittle 24
Starts - Husband 15

...peripheral as in not guaranteed starters like Royle, Hurst, Kendall, Wright (40 starts or above); Ball, Morrissey, Harvey, Newton H, with high 30 odd games.

degsy · November 23, 2019

davek said:
69/70 season:

42 games

Starts - Whittle 24
Starts - Husband 15

...peripheral as in not guaranteed starters like Royle, Hurst, Kendall, Wright (40 starts or above); Ball, Morrissey, Harvey, Newton H, with high 30 odd games.

Dave check again, your figures are for 70-71
None the less under Catterick, nobody was 'guaranteed a start'. Same as if players did the biz they stayed in - fail to do so or get injured and you were out, name or not.

That was Newton K, and he played 13 league and cup games

Husband played 32 hardly peripheral.
Whittle played 18, enough to get a medal in those stricter days and scored 11, again hardly peripheral
Players do get injured

davek · November 23, 2019

degsy said:
Dave check again, your figures are for 70-71
None the less under Catterick, nobody was 'guaranteed a start'. Same as if players did the biz they stayed in - fail to do so or get injured and you were out, name or not.

That was Newton K, and he played 13 league and cup games

Husband played 32 hardly peripheral.
Whittle played 18, enough to get a medal in those stricter days and scored 11, again hardly peripheral
Players do get injured

Oops! Sorry, yeah. Not sure how that happened.

Still, Whittle was a peripheral figure in that side as a starter, but Husband played a real part in the title win.

Catterick may have kept the bulk on their toes, but there was a core of 8 players or so who, if fit, always started.

I defer to you on this, tbf. You witnessed it (I think I'm right in saying?), so your view of who was a crucial component based on appearances AND impact holds sway.

degsy · November 23, 2019

davek said:
Oops! Sorry, yeah. Not sure how that happened.

Still, Whittle was a peripheral figure in that side as a starter, but Husband played a real part in the title win.

Catterick may have kept the bulk on their toes, but there was a core of 8 players or so who, if fit, always started.

I defer to you on this, tbf. You witnessed it (I think I'm right in saying?), so your view of who was a crucial component based on appearances AND impact holds sway.

Thanks
Husband played 30 league games, but his goal ratio fell away
Whittle came in with 11 in 15, nobody wins it on their own but he scored 3 times in 3 1-0 wins and 2 in a 2-0 win
So I'd call it 50/50, with both playing their roles on the day as required.
Edit. And no one should underestimate the part Tommy Jackson played either.