Goals on Sunday

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15th to 7th is hardly a miracle like...

That would be like the bible having tales of Jesus turning cordial into orange juice. Its nice and useful and all that but hardly miraculous.
 

Both examples you’ve used there are due to the manager performing absolute miracles with awful teams the previous season. Martinez does not have that excuse. Martinez took a side with 8 consecutive Top-8 finishes, into 2 consecutive 11th placed finishes. It was sustained regression.

You make some good points though, and I do think a lot of the good he did at the club gets forgotten about due to just how sour it turned by the final few months. Let’s hope the likes of Lukaku can achieve something here, and we can look back at Martinez’ time as an important time of transition.

You could also argue our 5th place finish was similar again, after the way we surrender that cup game to Wigan.
 
You are really using Duffy as the player who he stood in the way of? Because other than him, all other players were 1st choice above him, and Alcaraz was back up, nothing more. Had Duffy stayed, he would also have been back up, and as a younger player in the key period of his career, surely leaving to be 1st choice in another team is more beneficial?

Regardless, I maintain that Alcaraz, Kone, Joel and McCarthy were exactly what they were intended to be. Players Martinez knew to help the transition with the dressing room. Alcaraz was a free transfer, and was signed as back up to help fill the squad where money could be better used elsewhere.

I would argue that Alcaraz was a much better player than any of the following... Anthony Gardner, Phillipe Senderos, Eddy Bosnar, Ibrahim Said, Li Wei Feng... All of whom were signed under similar circumstances under Moyes. The joys of a tight budget.

Also, you claim that he only had 1 good game, and listed a different game to the clean sheet debut game, which he deputised with another young debutant, away a at a difficult Stoke.

Blame him all you want for Kiev, it won't change that he was nowhere near as bad a signing as you suggest, and was in no way more culpable than the rest of the team on the day.

Pity we didn't sign him from Scotland, you'd be chairman of his fanclub now.

Ah, you were doing so well but then fell into the "LOL you like Scottish Football" trap that so many do so in an effort to discredit me

Pity, but there goes your argument in one fell swoop by playing the man and not the issue

Oh well, there's always next time

That Stoke game was a 1-1 btw...
 

Ah, you were doing so well but then fell into the "LOL you like Scottish Football" trap that so many do so in an effort to discredit me

Pity, but there goes your argument in one fell swoop by playing the man and not the issue

Oh well, there's always next time

That Stoke game was a 1-1 btw...

Hahaha...

True though, no?
 
LOL YOU LIKE SCOTTISH FOOTBALL

It's just lazy at the end of the day isn't it?

I argued the issue without a mention of Kever10, but then he/she (Not intended as an insult, just don't want to assume gender. You never know with usernames) decided to use the fact I like Scottish Football as a way to suggest my opinion wasn't valid

Ultimately it doesn't matter, because Alcaraz was a crap footballer, upon which only the most blinkered would deny, especially when he got to us already knackered with injuries

The whole "Martinez needed his people in the dressing room" argument is fatuous at best and wasn't something he should have been thinking about. He should have been thinking "Are these players good enough to play for a club like Everton?" not "I need players to be my enforcers"

With Joel, Kone and Jimmy Mac, he had three Wigan players who at least contributed in some form, some more than others

With Alcaraz he signed an already crocked, washed up never was, and paid him to sit on a physio table just so he could have one of his mates knocking around the dressing room. He knew Alcaraz was injured but still signed him. Jobs for the boys and nothing more. That shouldn't be encouraged. If you're going to sign one of your mates they best deliver. And no, Stekelenberg doesn't fall into that category before anyone says that he does. Nor does Schneiderlin. Both are good players who still have things to offer. Neither are an Alcaraz

And why did we need Alcaraz to fill a hole in the squad when we had Duffy who had impressed on all his previous times in the first team as well as Stones under contract too? Less we forget that Jags and Distin were the CB pair when Martinez arrived, with both Duffy and Stones the heir apparents
 
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No one is saying it is, just that it's better than 6th to 5th and certainly better than 5th to 13th.

Someone did say that though...

I find anywhere from 7th to say 14th to be pretty much of a muchness really. Maybe not this season is there are 6 strong sides above that point.
 

Someone did say that though...

I find anywhere from 7th to say 14th to be pretty much of a muchness really. Maybe not this season is there are 6 strong sides above that point.
I find 7th to 14th four, five even six additional wins per season. I don't know about you but when I leave the game and Everton have won it feels really good. Unlike those poor fans who witness 21 wins in Martinez' last 75 games dropping 134 points out of 225 available.

But that might just be me.

Although i doubt it.
:coffee:
 
It's just lazy at the end of the day isn't it?

I argued the issue without a mention of Kever10, but then he/she (Not intended as an insult, just don't want to assume gender. You never know with usernames) decided to use the fact I like Scottish Football as a way to suggest my opinion wasn't valid

Ultimately it doesn't matter, because Alcaraz was a crap footballer

The whole "Martinez needed his people in the dressing room" argument is fatuous at best and wasn't something he should have been thinking about. He should have been thinking "Are these players good enough to play for a club like Everton?" not "I need players to be my enforcers"

With Joel, Kone and Jimmy Mac, he had three Wigan players who at least contributed in some form, some more than others

With Alcaraz he signed an already crocked, washed up never was, and paid him to sit on a physio table just so he could have one of his mates knocking around the dressing room. He knew Alcaraz was injured but still signed him. Jobs for the boys and nothing more. That shouldn't be encouraged. If you're going to sign one of your mates they best deliver. And no, Stekelenberg doesn't fall into that category before anyone says that he does. Nor does Schneiderlin. Both are good players who still have things to offer. Neither are an Alcaraz

And why did we need Alcaraz to fill a hole in the squad when we had Duffy who had impressed on all his previous times in the first team as well as Stones under contract too? Less we forget that Jags and Distin were the CB pair when Martinez arrived, with both Duffy and Stones the heir apparents

Not really, I argued the point as I would anyone else. I used the Scottish football line as a punchline.

Offense is taken, not given.
 
As Socrates once said; "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser"

(Good old Google, it would have made debating in ancient times somewhat less exciting)

See, I used that as a lighthearted punchline to what I thought was a well considered reply to your message. You proceeded to take offense and ignore the main points I made to criticise me, a non clique member, for having the audacity to use a popular in joke against you.

And I would hardly say it was slander... That would suggest it wasn't true...

Clever guy that Socrates though. Great player too.
 
See, I used that as a lighthearted punchline to what I thought was a well considered reply to your message. You proceeded to take offense and ignore the main points I made to criticise me, a non clique member, for having the audacity to use a popular in joke against you.

And I would hardly say it was slander... That would suggest it wasn't true...

Clever guy that Socrates though. Great player too.

I don't ride in any clique's Friend

I'm a dangerous loner who plays by his own rules

And Zico was better, Serginho was much maligned
 

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