George Green

[Pabbers]

This is a damn shame, i feel for the lad. Hope he turns it all around and we see him playing very soon.

I hate stories like this, my son is currently in an academy set up and I swear you can already see some kids that may go down this route.

 

[bizzaro]

This hasn’t come as a great surprise to me and certainly not to those in and around the club. I intimated at issues there had been with George earlier in this thread when he went out on loan to Tranmere. It would have been unfair of me to divulge much of the information other than to say there had been difficulties. It’s not fair on the young man himself, the club or the coaching staff.

More will come out and has by the looks of things. The general feeling was that Tranmere offered George a kind of last opportunity, maybe playing first team football would wake him up a little bit.

That the isuses he has were in part caused by him being a big fish in a small pond. The problem is, that the problems he faced aren’t necessarily solved by throwing him into mens football. I can see the thinking, but it was probably a bit short sited. Having said that, there’s not an awful lot more the club could have done.

What does it mean? Well I think it’s a great shame and I think that George moved much too young. There is a part of me that feels he has thrown away a fantastic opportunity, being paid money most of us could only dream of. The other part of me feels incredibly sorry for him. He was a teenager who moved away from home and struggled to cope with it. Throw in the competitive culture of pro football, the pressure of being a 300k signing and 2k per week and it’s a toxic mix for some. From a footballing perspective I had to say some are going a little OTT on this issue. Some saying it makes out our young players are no good, or we’ve just let a world class talent go, or wasted money.

The reality is George was no longer considered a top talent. You could easily name 10 players who are ahead of him in terms of potential. Feel free to go and vault me, but I’ve never suggested he was one who was close to making the first team. Around his own age we have Long, Browning, Galloway, Pennington and Jones who are ahead of him. Younger than him we have Dowell, Walsh, Ledson and Kenny.

He was rarely in the reserve team. He should not be used as some stick to beat our young players with. Yes we have spent a little bit of money on him. 300k down payment and none of the rest. The blunt truth is, if we signed 20 George Greens, if 1 makes it to the first team we have done brilliantly.

What it shows is you have to take with a pinch of salt the idea of “world class” 16 year olds. Aside from Rooney it’s hard to think of any young English player in the last 50 years who you could say was good enough at age 16. Rooney was a freak, a player you get once in a life time. Even great players like Ferdinand, Lampard, Terry, Gerrard etc were not first team regulars at age 18, never mind 16. Everything depends on the development between 16-21. For George he has gone off the rails.

I hope for the sake of the lad himself he sorts himself out and gets a club. I doubt it though, Tranmere was an audition for him and he flunked his lines. For Everton, brutal though it may be, we need to focus on the dozen or so young players who are in advance of Green.

Brilliant post this.

He hasn't been signed for a reason. Whatever that may be.

As a young man he just didn't 'click' in the Everton setup. For whatever reason. He may have a few personal issues - as a young inexperienced man. We've all been there.

Hope he makes a decent career for himself. In football or not. It's no reflection on anyone's character or ability not being signed up by Everton.

We're an elite team. With limited opportunities.

Like the SAS or something. Doesn't mean the lad can't go join the Marines or the Paras. Where he might do better.

 

[catcherintherye]

Brilliant post this.

He hasn't been signed for a reason. Whatever that may be.

As a young man he just didn't 'click' in the Everton setup. For whatever reason. He may have a few personal issues - as a young inexperienced man. We've all been there.

Hope he makes a decent career for himself. In football or not. It's no reflection on anyone's character or ability not being signed up by Everton.

We're an elite team. With limited opportunities.

Like the SAS or something. Doesn't mean the lad can't go join the Marines or the Paras. Where he might do better.

Thanks mate.

Yes I think he was lonely. As an under 18 he used to go back to Bradford a lot and would spend significant periods of time away from the club. I suspect as he got a bit older he found other ways to self medicate that loneliness.

The SAS is a good analogy. You have to be not only very good, but also have an incredibly strong mental attitude to break through as a young player in the premier league.

 

[mrb85]

Thanks mate.

Yes I think he was lonely. As an under 18 he used to go back to Bradford a lot and would spend significant periods of time away from the club. I suspect as he got a bit older he found other ways to self medicate that loneliness.

The SAS is a good analogy. You have to be not only very good, but also have an incredibly strong mental attitude to break through as a young player in the premier league.

Not that the company he was keeping in Bradford was any good for him....

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

You'll have to forgive me if I'm a tad sceptical these days whenever I hear the "attitude problems" excuse for getting rid of/not playing a youth player, as it was Moyes go to excuse for excusing never giving the younger players a chance

On this occasion though, evidence is pointing to it being a resonable statement to make

 

[maccavennie]

I hope for the kids sake it is just an attitude problem and not anything to do with alcohol addiction. That will be a lifelong battle for the lad if it is that with a lot of temptations along the way. Wouldn't want to see that happen to any 18 year kid so it doesn't matter to me if he played for us or not. Hope he gets himself sorted, gets good people around him and finds himself a new club.

 

[Bilko]

Might be the wake up call he needs , I'm sure his people ,family and the club have been trying to tell him in the last 12 months he needed to improve,perhaps he didn't believe them.

I'm sure he's gutted at the moment ,but there's time,it's wether mentally he has the character

 

[catcherintherye]

Not that the company he was keeping in Bradford was any good for him....

I always remember reading (or it might have been watching) Gary Neville. He said at the age of 14-15 he basically dumped all of his friendship group and stopped seeing them. It wasn't that they were awful people or anything else, but he knew to become a professional footballer he could not afford any distractions and they would hold him back. His life had to go in a different direction and he had to completely leave behind his old life to not be seen anymore.

It always struck me as both a credible sign of his determination but also underneath a very sad reflection of the self centred ruthlessness that many sportsmen have to possess. I think back to when I was 14 or 15 and would I be able to have tossed all of my friends aside for anything. What sort of person does that make me etc.

The wider point I'm making though, is in that environment often the ills of people's friends can be slightly overblown (I am not sure they are with George). But also if you are not of a very particular mind-set is very easy to get caught in a spiral. You require a very strong clear outlook which not everyone possesses.

What Neville realised, in all likelihood, was that whether intentionally or not had he have waited until he was 18 it would have been even harder to get rid of them. It could have easily led to him being lulled into a negative cycle.

As I've said I don't think it's always terrible decisions people are making. Sometimes people make small mistakes which then over time become magnified. Or sometimes young men are incapable of making the sacrafices required, not because they are bad people, but because they are human.

 

[The Cowboy]

I always remember reading (or it might have been watching) Gary Neville. He said at the age of 14-15 he basically dumped all of his friendship group and stopped seeing them. It wasn't that they were awful people or anything else, but he knew to become a professional footballer he could not afford any distractions and they would hold him back. His life had to go in a different direction and he had to completely leave behind his old life to not be seen anymore.

It always struck me as both a credible sign of his determination but also underneath a very sad reflection of the self centred ruthlessness that many sportsmen have to possess. I think back to when I was 14 or 15 and would I be able to have tossed all of my friends aside for anything. What sort of person does that make me etc.

The wider point I'm making though, is in that environment often the ills of people's friends can be slightly overblown (I am not sure they are with George). But also if you are not of a very particular mind-set is very easy to get caught in a spiral. You require a very strong clear outlook which not everyone possesses.

What Neville realised, in all likelihood, was that whether intentionally or not had he have waited until he was 18 it would have been even harder to get rid of them. It could have easily led to him being lulled into a negative cycle.

As I've said I don't think it's always terrible decisions people are making. Sometimes people make small mistakes which then over time become magnified. Or sometimes young men are incapable of making the sacrafices required, not because they are bad people, but because they are human.

Shame Gary didn't encourage Phil to stick with his mates...

 

[FTY]

You'll have to forgive me if I'm a tad sceptical these days whenever I hear the "attitude problems" excuse for getting rid of/not playing a youth player, as it was Moyes go to excuse for excusing never giving the younger players a chance

On this occasion though, evidence is pointing to it being a resonable statement to make

It's alcoholism, not attitude problems.

 

[Steve Wigan]

This is the type of thread that renews my belief in the fact that there are a lot of sensible, sensitive caring posters on this forum, and that the forum is not simply a vehicle for child like 'humour ' and verbal graffitti. The emphasis largely has been on sympathy for George and hopes for his long term future, and at the end of the day this is all that matters. Sometimes extreme talent(or even potential) comes at a price that is simply too much for the individual to handle. Gary Neville in the post above was a 14 year old exception to the rule for 14 year olds...he turned his back on his 'friends' in favour of his ambition. There are very few who can do that, despite the guidance by experienced people at Everton and other clubs. I'm sure that Everton did all they could to help George, that has always been the real 'Everton Way'. Gazza was on TV the other night at the launch of his film, and I'd like to think that as well as myself, many of us had a little thought along the lines of 'Glad he's looking well, hope he can keep winning his fight' Fight...because thats what it is, when you suffer from the illness that is alcoholism, and it is an illness. Its an illness that starts in your head, along with your environment, your surroundings, the people around you (Its easy to be lonely in a crowd, if its not the crowd you want to be in). Its not possible to mollycoddle 18 year olds these days, but there does need to be guide lines for clubs and very strict national standards set, to avoid more tragedies like this. Everton are known to be one of the best clubs when it comes to our responsibilities towards players off the field....whatever people say about BK he is a sentimentalist and a humane person who would not have it any other way. I hope George Green, and all the other victims of alcoholism and other terrible diseases find the strength, and the support, to enable them to fight on.

 

[Bungle]

This is the type of thread that renews my belief in the fact that there are a lot of sensible, sensitive caring posters on this forum, and that the forum is not simply a vehicle for child like 'humour ' and verbal graffitti. The emphasis largely has been on sympathy for George and hopes for his long term future, and at the end of the day this is all that matters. Sometimes extreme talent(or even potential) comes at a price that is simply too much for the individual to handle. Gary Neville in the post above was a 14 year old exception to the rule for 14 year olds...he turned his back on his 'friends' in favour of his ambition. There are very few who can do that, despite the guidance by experienced people at Everton and other clubs. I'm sure that Everton did all they could to help George, that has always been the real 'Everton Way'. Gazza was on TV the other night at the launch of his film, and I'd like to think that as well as myself, many of us had a little thought along the lines of 'Glad he's looking well, hope he can keep winning his fight' Fight...because thats what it is, when you suffer from the illness that is alcoholism, and it is an illness. Its an illness that starts in your head, along with your environment, your surroundings, the people around you (Its easy to be lonely in a crowd, if its not the crowd you want to be in). Its not possible to mollycoddle 18 year olds these days, but there does need to be guide lines for clubs and very strict national standards set, to avoid more tragedies like this. Everton are known to be one of the best clubs when it comes to our responsibilities towards players off the field....whatever people say about BK he is a sentimentalist and a humane person who would not have it any other way. I hope George Green, and all the other victims of alcoholism and other terrible diseases find the strength, and the support, to enable them to fight on.

Thank you Steve.

 

[Carlito]

Can't really point fingers at the club over this.

Everton do more than their fair share to support alcohol abstinence by only serving Chang.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Thanks mate.

Yes I think he was lonely. As an under 18 he used to go back to Bradford a lot and would spend significant periods of time away from the club. I suspect as he got a bit older he found other ways to self medicate that loneliness.

The SAS is a good analogy. You have to be not only very good, but also have an incredibly strong mental attitude to break through as a young player in the premier league.

Was really glad when saw Henen and Galloway had formed a good friendship quickly, think it really helped them both settle into the club as each was away from home and a new signing.

Was probably particularly important for Henen as he'd been rumoured to have attitude problems before his arrival.

 

[catcherintherye]

This is the type of thread that renews my belief in the fact that there are a lot of sensible, sensitive caring posters on this forum, and that the forum is not simply a vehicle for child like 'humour ' and verbal graffitti. The emphasis largely has been on sympathy for George and hopes for his long term future, and at the end of the day this is all that matters. Sometimes extreme talent(or even potential) comes at a price that is simply too much for the individual to handle. Gary Neville in the post above was a 14 year old exception to the rule for 14 year olds...he turned his back on his 'friends' in favour of his ambition. There are very few who can do that, despite the guidance by experienced people at Everton and other clubs. I'm sure that Everton did all they could to help George, that has always been the real 'Everton Way'. Gazza was on TV the other night at the launch of his film, and I'd like to think that as well as myself, many of us had a little thought along the lines of 'Glad he's looking well, hope he can keep winning his fight' Fight...because thats what it is, when you suffer from the illness that is alcoholism, and it is an illness. Its an illness that starts in your head, along with your environment, your surroundings, the people around you (Its easy to be lonely in a crowd, if its not the crowd you want to be in). Its not possible to mollycoddle 18 year olds these days, but there does need to be guide lines for clubs and very strict national standards set, to avoid more tragedies like this. Everton are known to be one of the best clubs when it comes to our responsibilities towards players off the field....whatever people say about BK he is a sentimentalist and a humane person who would not have it any other way. I hope George Green, and all the other victims of alcoholism and other terrible diseases find the strength, and the support, to enable them to fight on.

Yes spot on. It was a great Strength for Gary Neville to do what he did, but in many ways it does show a lack of humanity. From a footballing perspective George probably should have binned his old mates. From a human perspective it is fully understandable. It's always underpinned my belief really, that talent is only a small part of what is needed to be a professional, having a mental strength goes a long way too.

Everton of course do do a lot for younger players. I've seem Phil Jevons was back coaching our kids. O'Brien who won the youth cup with us is doing the same. Kenwright is a sentimentalist. However what he and Everton can never do is replace the culture that is involved in elite sport. It is a game that almost every young person would give a great deal to have the chance to succeed in. In some cases a game that they would turn their back on every friend they have just to give themselves a better chance of being given an opportunity. Only the very best will succeed. We might not like that, but as fans we demand the best Everton team we can have and in the end there will always be consequences to in their quest for perfection.

It should be noted that there is nothing official on George being an alcoholic yet in spite of the speculation! I think we should be wary of speculating about any alleged illness he may or may not have, other than to say he has found it difficult to make the transition into pro football at the moment.