Finch Farm Facts

[davek]

-as an aside DaveK, isn't that 5mil loss pre Arteta sale,et al,and we're a bit more balanced now?

Not sure about that - I reckon it'll depend on what we actually raked in from that lot and the revenue performance this season. Getting rid of a lot of players wont necessarily spare us from having to cut again soon. The Colin Fitz financial review, for example, shows that after big surpluses in player trading and other disposals in 2010 (£19M) we ran up losses of £3M. I dont think we pulled in more than that on player trading this year. His conclusion is that: "The £5m losses are therefore dependent on continuing the strategy of the disposal of assets, ".

 

[orchard]

Cheers for that! If true,looks fairly grim,I thought it was a -5mil operating w/o transfers...

 

[Neiler]

2012 is the next (first) opportunity to buy the facility. Dont forget though, the £16M valuation is only a starting figure. They'll be looking north of that. And how does the club acquire, say, £20M to compete for it? We have zero credit, the board wont invest and - as per the Colin Fitz summary linked to earlier on the BU thread - the club needs to find £5M from player sales every year now simply to stay in business, so the sale of another player on top to cover the purchase of FF is unthinkable.

That's why this board generates so much frustration: they've run out of every bit of room for manoeuvre and offer nothing but more austerity.

I think your wrong here mate, as i beleive its subjsect to contract, cant see us buying though to be fair next year as i read between the lines i think we have indicated this also. Bad move if true and worth taking long term debt on for considering the outlay, cost/benift and existing rent. That said its an indication that the club want a sale - i think if they were in it for the long term it makes sense to purchase it. No one knows for certain of course but my own opinion is we wont take up the option next year.

 

[Neiler]

Not sure about that - I reckon it'll depend on what we actually raked in from that lot and the revenue performance this season. Getting rid of a lot of players wont necessarily spare us from having to cut again soon. The Colin Fitz financial review, for example, shows that after big surpluses in player trading and other disposals in 2010 (£19M) we ran up losses of £3M. I dont think we pulled in more than that on player trading this year. His conclusion is that: "The £5m losses are therefore dependent on continuing the strategy of the disposal of assets, ".

Its hard to say, though its a bit simplistic in terms of analysis based on player tradeing, in reality wages etc have to be taken into account which is prob the big smokeing gun, their is an additional boost in oversees broadcasting rights - which is estimated and strangely 5 mill. Yet i imagine the loss of European income and Tv revenue is likely to be a downward trend. Im interested to see what in the coffers post Kirkby and that drag and the bellfeild cash how it actually broke down.

 

[davek]

I think your wrong here mate, as i beleive its subjsect to contract, cant see us buying though to be fair next year as i read between the lines i think we have indicated this also. Bad move if true and worth taking long term debt on for considering the outlay, cost/benift and existing rent. That said its an indication that the club want a sale - i think if they were in it for the long term it makes sense to purchase it. No one knows for certain of course but my own opinion is we wont take up the option next year.

We cant possibly buy it. Not even worth speculating on unless there's a change of ownership.

Its hard to say, though its a bit simplistic in terms of analysis based on player tradeing, in reality wages etc have to be taken into account which is prob the big smokeing gun, their is an additional boost in oversees broadcasting rights - which is estimated and strangely 5 mill. Yet i imagine the loss of European income and Tv revenue is likely to be a downward trend. Im interested to see what in the coffers post Kirkby and that drag and the bellfeild cash how it actually broke down.

The gate money will be lower and we wont have any other *Bellefield one off payments* going forward. The trend is set: produce bargains and bring through young players on lower wages and sell on experienced, quality players that turn the heads of top Premier League teams for decent money - then see how far this radical plan gets you.

It's like handing over the running of the club to a riverboat gambler. That's where we are almost 12 years into soft ollies regime.

 

[Mvflusk]

We cant possibly buy it. Not even worth speculating on unless there's a change of ownership.



The gate money will be lower and we wont have any other *Bellefield one off payments* going forward. The trend is set: produce bargains and bring through young players on lower wages and sell on experienced, quality players that turn the heads of top Premier League teams for decent money - then see how far this radical plan gets you.

It's like handing over the running of the club to a riverboat gambler. That's where we are almost 12 years into soft ollies regime.

What club outside the top five DOESN'T sell their best youth produce though? The time of one-club-men is over.

 

[Neiler]

We cant possibly buy it. Not even worth speculating on unless there's a change of ownership.

I dont beleive thats true to be honest, i dont beleive we have cash flow outright to buy it but we can certainly borrow the 15 mill required to buy it. Which makes sense to me, like i say i dont think we will because i think the shareholders want to sell but as a long term strategy i think its the most prudent and logical.

The gate money will be lower and we wont have any other *Bellefield one off payments* going forward. The trend is set: produce bargains and bring through young players on lower wages and sell on experienced, quality players that turn the heads of top Premier League teams for decent money - then see how far this radical plan gets you.

It's like handing over the running of the club to a riverboat gambler. That's where we are almost 12 years into soft ollies regime.

The gate money, is a drop in the ocean to be honest when it comes to turnover these days, so i dont beleive it will have that much of an impact, it will be supplemented elsewhere, we will prob maintain i would suspect turnover in fact prob increase it, the cost base is where the smokeing gun is to be honest, the huge drain will be wages after the new contracts, we overshot and in the end couldnt afford our cost base IMO - the accounts will reflect this.

As for the model you speak of, your prob not wrong buy low, sell high, its nothing new to be honest, its the way it has been post Johnson - we have seen it in the last cycle of this team - circa Arteta, Lescott etc. Its always been the model in terms of building a team nothing has radicaly changed to be honest, except you forgot the part where we turn young players with potential into quality international footballers.

 

[davek]

I dont beleive thats true to be honest, i dont beleive we have cash flow outright to buy it but we can certainly borrow the 15 mill required to buy it. Which makes sense to me, like i say i dont think we will because i think the shareholders want to sell but as a long term strategy i think its the most prudent and logical.

I dont know which parallel universe Everton have the ability to raise another £15M worth of credit in.

As for the model you speak of, your prob not wrong buy low, sell high, its nothing new to be honest, its the way it has been post Johnson - we have seen it in the last cycle of this team - circa Arteta, Lescott etc. Its always been the model in terms of building a team nothing has radicaly changed to be honest, except you forgot the part where we turn young players with potential into quality international footballers.

That's a bit of a fib really isn't it? That's the model for the last few seasons. The model when Moyes took charge in 2002 was always to retain your own best players and add a couple of quality players each season to make an incremental increase in competitiveness. That went out the window when soft lad Kenwright ran out of assets to flog and couldn't make the leap to increased revenue through commercially growing the club. He put all his eggs in his get rich stadium scheme basket and now look at where we are...onto the 'new model' of slash and burn.

 

[Neiler]

I dont know which parallel universe Everton have the ability to raise another £15M worth of credit in.

I would think your wrong there mate, in fact i'm certain of it. There is a big difference between useing credit for a depreciable asset (transfers) and costs (wages) then it is on fixed assets and infrastructure which adds to the value of a company. For a company with 80mill turnover it wouldnt be a problem - especially as we have proven that we can make repayments of £1.259,153 mill a year on it current (annual rent). Its like going to the bank and asking for a million for three top of the range ferraris or going to the bank and asking for £1mill for a mortgage on a house and showing you have the income to meet the repayents - your more likely to get the latter loan.

Do the maths mate, the cost of the total rent of Finch Farm over the period of our lease is = £62 957,65. I imagine the cost of the credit over a 15-18 year period maybe 20 odd million, to buy it outright next year = just makes sense really doesnt it.

To be honest i would be surprised if this happens, i think its entirely possible to go down this route, but as always i beleive the shareholders want to sell so will be keen not to add cost to the liabilities. Though the rumour doing the rounds suggests the sale of FF to a third party is a precursor to a takeover.

That's a bit of a fib really isn't it? That's the model for the last few seasons. The model when Moyes took charge in 2002 was always to retain your own best players and add a couple of quality players each season to make an incremental increase in competitiveness. That went out the window when soft lad Kenwright ran out of assets to flog and couldn't make the leap to increased revenue through commercially growing the club. He put all his eggs in his get rich stadium scheme basket and now look at where we are...onto the 'new model' of slash and burn.

Nah i wouldnt be having that really, the model hasnt changed and im surprised when your always going on about net spends that your feild of vision and memory doesnt stretch that far. Your being disingenuous pretneding that you have stumbled acorss something new here,

Buy young players with potential, develop them, establish them, make them internationals, if they want to leave and a massive offer comes in, make a humongous profit. I dont think we are in isolation with that straegey either circa Arsenal - prob the rest of fooball as well.