Financial (Un)Fair Play.

[johnjoeefc]

Who was it that voted in FFP? was it the PL clubs at the time or was it the top 6?

The reason it was voted in was because realistically the smaller clubs in the Premier league with very limited budgets will never spend over their means anyway. So it works to their benefit if clubs that find significant investment like everton did and Newcastle now have, cannot become another super team. But it also means that no clubs other than 6 will ever have a chance at ever being anything other than mediocre and there to make up the numbers.

 

[perth_blue]

Salary cap is the way to go.
Spend whatever you want on transfers, still can only pay the player so much.

 

[johnjoeefc]

Salary cap is the way to go.
Spend whatever you want on transfers, still can only pay the player so much.

100% the way. Then every team who enters the Premier league has a fair chance of winning It.

 

[allen]

Blaming our failures on FFP is nonsense.

To suggest external forces are to blame for our abject failure to spend £600 million in anything other than a terrible way is letting Moshiri and co off the hook.

They've blown our chances to close the gap by not having any sort of strategy.

I also don't believe it's a closed shop. If it were, Tottenham would never have wormed their way in.

FFP isn't perfect, but it's not to blame for our mess.

 

[stony]

Who was it that voted in FFP? was it the PL clubs at the time or was it the top 6?

Why was Platini's first incarnation of ffp changed? It targeted debt but was altered to stop outside investment. Why would any industry ban outside investment if it wasn't to protect those already on the gravy train.

I will do a special deal for you. Buy one magic bean and get one free.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Wait til @Villa_Fan wakes up once Villa are in the same situation as us 2-3 years from now @Saint Domingo

 

[The binman chronicles]

Blaming our failures on FFP is nonsense.

To suggest external forces are to blame for our abject failure to spend £600 million in anything other than a terrible way is letting Moshiri and co off the hook.

They've blown our chances to close the gap by not having any sort of strategy.

I also don't believe it's a closed shop. If it were, Tottenham would never have wormed their way in.

FFP isn't perfect, but it's not to blame for our mess.

City were cash rich before the Arabs took over and they wasted a lot of money up to that point, had that happened now they wouldn't have been able to buy their way out of that mess once they turned up to go on to what they've become.

Yes we wasted a load of cash so it's partly our fault but the example above shows you what it's designed to do. Protect the big clubs interests. We tried to shortcut the system and get in high price players in the bid to continually get Europe, increase revenues to continue buying that calibre of player. Had we done it the other way there is still no guarantees we would be any better off, more cash to spend buying in the same pool of average PL footballers isn't going to cut it either.

The only way you can guarantee performance is to get world class players like Toure and say we'll pay you 250k when the rest of the market pays 150k. FFP has basically locked out the chance by saying how good you are commercially at that certain point in time dictated how easy or hard to run your club successfully on the pitch, which is a crock of shhh.

Spurs were a champions league club with London centric ticket prices and commercial deals. They probably saw the writing on the wall and decided to upgrade their stadium at that time which was also savvy. You can't say they wormed their way in, they were in the right place at the right time.

 

[allen]

City were cash rich before the Arabs took over and they wasted a lot of money up to that point, had that happened now they wouldn't have been able to buy their way out of that mess once they turned up to go on to what they've become.

Yes we wasted a load of cash so it's partly our fault but the example above shows you what it's designed to do. Protect the big clubs interests. We tried to shortcut the system and get in high price players in the bid to continually get Europe, increase revenues to continue buying that calibre of player. Had we done it the other way there is still no guarantees we would be any better off, more cash to spend buying in the same pool of average PL footballers isn't going to cut it either.

The only way you can guarantee performance is to get world class players like Toure and say we'll pay you 250k when the rest of the market pays 150k. FFP has basically locked out the chance by saying how good you are commercially at that certain point in time dictated how easy or hard to run your club successfully on the pitch, which is a crock of shhh.

Spurs were a champions league club with London centric ticket prices and commercial deals. They probably saw the writing on the wall and decided to upgrade their stadium at that time which was also savvy. You can't say they wormed their way in, they were in the right place at the right time.

Spurs have absolutely earned it, that was my point - though I admit my verb choice was poor (I think it was born out of jealousy!).

But I just can't get away with blaming FFP. There's a list of reasons why we've failed to hit Moshiri's ambitions for us, and FFP is at the bottom.

Evertonians need to focus on the problems at EFC, not the regulations from the FA or UEFA. They are a distraction from the thing that we desperately need to change about the way we do business.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Wait til @Villa_Fan wakes up once Villa are in the same situation as us 2-3 years from now @Saint Domingo

You can’t complain about the unfairness in football because about five years ago we let Koeman buy some poor players for us with the one bit of cash we’ve had in 30 years.

Just shut up and let City and Liverpool win 14 in a row live on Sky and BT sport ffs.

 

[toffee-L]

The rules are blatantly unfair, but the recklessness we have demonstrated since Moshiri has been here means we cannot blame anyone else for our predicament but ourselves.

The rules are very easy for established clubs to manipulate, as their enormous revenues and the way they hoover up young talent to sell them on effectively gives them carte blanche to do whatever they want in the transfer market. The only way for emerging clubs to break into this exclusive club is to basically do what Manchester City do and cheat, and Newcastle will almost certainly follow their lead through disguised ownership investment through vastly inflated sponsorship deals.

In our case, it is clear that a period of austerity is needed to basically wipe out or losses, but when about 90p of every £1 the club makes goes into the back pockets of the players, a thoroughly miserable group of players at that, what can you do?

 

[Villa_Fan]

Wait til @Villa_Fan wakes up once Villa are in the same situation as us 2-3 years from now @Saint Domingo

I am wide awake and like me, nobody else knows if the current Villa strategy with regard to transfers and managerial and coach appointments will work. Time will tell. It could work and Villa could break into Europe and it could fail and Villa could be in financial trouble. The outcome will be determined by the quality of the Villa management team and not the FFP rules.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I am wide awake and like me, nobody else knows if the current Villa strategy with regard to transfers and managerial and coach appointments will work. Time will tell. It could work and Villa could break into Europe and it could fail and Villa could be in financial trouble. The outcome will be determined by the quality of the Villa management team and not the FFP rules.

Whilst your last sentence is true, the same FFP rules only give you one chance. If you don’t break in to the top 6 (and stay there) then you’re looking at a 3 year cool off period whilst you scale back transfer spend in order to let loss making years fall off the books (or you sell all your best players)

Meanwhile the likes of United Arsenal Liverpool can spend whatever they want within FFP year after year after year. They could fail multiple times and have another crack whenever they want. Villa and Everton can only fail once before repercussions hit. That’s the difference.

Now if Villa can turn out a Grealish every year to sell to offset losses then that solves the issue. Maybe you can sell Ramsay at some point, but again I don’t know many teams who crack the top 6 by selling their best players to the teams already above them.

 

[allen]

I am wide awake and like me, nobody else knows if the current Villa strategy with regard to transfers and managerial and coach appointments will work. Time will tell. It could work and Villa could break into Europe and it could fail and Villa could be in financial trouble. The outcome will be determined by the quality of the Villa management team and not the FFP rules.

Yeah, it’s not a guarantee Villa will follow our trajectory, but I think there are worrying signs of something similar.

In particular, you remind me of us under Koeman at the moment. A manager who isn’t as good as he thinks he is, with his eyes on a very particular other managerial vacancy that he wants to get to ASAP.

 

[Villa_Fan]

The rules are blatantly unfair, but the recklessness we have demonstrated since Moshiri has been here means we cannot blame anyone else for our predicament but ourselves.

The rules are very easy for established clubs to manipulate, as their enormous revenues and the way they hoover up young talent to sell them on effectively gives them carte blanche to do whatever they want in the transfer market. The only way for emerging clubs to break into this exclusive club is to basically do what Manchester City do and cheat, and Newcastle will almost certainly follow their lead through disguised ownership investment through vastly inflated sponsorship deals.

In our case, it is clear that a period of austerity is needed to basically wipe out or losses, but when about 90p of every £1 the club makes goes into the back pockets of the players, a thoroughly miserable group of players at that, what can you do?

I think that is a key point albeit I would change the word 'manipulate' to 'exploit'. Clubs outside of the top 6 have much less margin of error than clubs inside the top 6 which appears unfair. I think Everton's success in the transfer market over the last 6 years is probably similar to that of Man Utd. Yet, Everton now has huge financial challenges while Man Utd can simply sack the manager, employ a big name and give him an open chequebook to try and fix things. IMO, there should be a mechanism for owners to invest money in a club without falling foul of FFP. If Moshiri wants to put 300m into Everton he should be permitted to do so as long as he actually puts the cash in the bank account. He should not be permitted to sign contracts for silly money with lots of players and simply say he will pay the money overtime if it is needed. Owners must be stopped from amassing massive debt and doing a runner from the club and leaving it in a perilous financial position.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Spurs have absolutely earned it, that was my point - though I admit my verb choice was poor (I think it was born out of jealousy!).

But I just can't get away with blaming FFP. There's a list of reasons why we've failed to hit Moshiri's ambitions for us, and FFP is at the bottom.

Evertonians need to focus on the problems at EFC, not the regulations from the FA or UEFA. They are a distraction from the thing that we desperately need to change about the way we do business.

The point is though how can a team that earns 8th/9th out of 20 ever hope to consistently jump to be where the European place teams are when they all earn at least our total wage bill on top? That's how much more they can spend on wages and fees before we even start. The only way you can is to take risks and try and do what we did - which worked for the first season, but at that point we bought badly and then were chasing our tails, partly constrained by the one year we messed up. Or do we accept our lot and just try and play safe hoping that our younger stars take the whole team forward if we have a great season and everyone else has a poor one?

Of course the latter with limited ambition will see our stars picked off by the bigger clubs as soon as they hit a certain level, so if we don't go from 10th to say 5th in a season to offer something else, a bit of growth, you are back to square one the next season.

That is what FFP has done for us because when we had Ancelotti, Pickford was playing well, Digne, Richarlison, James, DCL etc. we were then were hamstrung to kick on and get the players we needed to compete at the highest level. Chelsea, City et all got that chance sans FFP.

It's like having a world title fight and being told the champion was here already so you have to have your hands tied behind your back, so I just can't see how you can say it's at the bottom as it's integral to why we are here.