Financial Fair Play investigation

[WestStandLower]

There’s a reason that Defendants in criminal proceedings are advised to seek a jury trial. Prospects of acquittals are far higher.

Also the punishment is far higher if you don’t admit a charge and then get found guilty

 

[WestStandLower]

Agree with this. Ukraine has really screwed us from a selfish point hasn’t it.

One of the men who sits two rows behind me at SB works for a National Daily and although he didn’t have any inside information he did make mention of questions being asked re the contract with the advance naming right’s deal with USM.

To be fair it wasn’t around the fair market value question his interest was he couldn’t establish if the cancellation of this contract by Everton would mean that either that sum would have to be expunged by way of a later years accounting adjustment and how and even if that would impact on PL submissions.

 

[BNJ1878]

PL clubs charged in accordance with the PL rules don’t have access to CAS.

Thank you.

People banging on about appealing to CAS are probably in the same group suggesting we cancel the Dele loan.

 

[davek]

One of the men who sits two rows behind me at SB works for a National Daily and although he didn’t have any inside information he did make mention of questions being asked re the contract with the advance naming right’s deal with USM.

To be fair it wasn’t around the fair market value question his interest was he couldn’t establish if the cancellation of this contract by Everton would mean that either that sum would have to be expunged by way of a later years accounting adjustment and how and even if that would impact on PL submissions.

FFS, why is anyone giving this feller the time of day on this?

He knows f.a. about Everton and this Commission's inquiry.

 

[kenada_blue]

@kenada_blue
You invite me to speculate, because, of course, no one knows what was intended or what would have happened apart from what did happen. However, I imagine the clubs were concerned at the premature leak of the scheme and very, very worried by their fans negative, hostile responses, and the EPL were shocked at the idea and their lack of rules.
1. The scab six seem to have intended to carry on playing in the EPL but, I imagine, if finishing in a European place, would have had to decline it or, more likely, not been invited to take it up.
2. The fans reacted in large numbers and quickly, forcing the EPL to take action, or at least to be seen to take action.
3. If I were to speculate, i would suggest that the EPL had to avoid pushing the scab six out of the EPL by accident, so negotiated the 'goodwill gesture' and the new rules to avoid a large loss of interest and income.
But I don't really know, do you?

Or getting on board that the PL is more concerned about image and brand that being fair or strict.

The ESP would in time eclipse the PL or rival it for revenue the more the "big teams" concentrate on it. That's bad on the brand and TV money.

Their punishment was never going to be harsh because it looks bad and they don't want to fall out with these teams (end of the day it was a power grab by clubs who are losing money).

Why was PIF rejected to take over Newcastle? Piracy over broadcast games. Couple of back handers, stopped transmission of those games...now everything is fine. Bumper TV deal and Newcastle play every Sunday at half 5 for prime time in Saudi.

It's all a game.

Whether they feel Everton are expendable for that game... we'll see

 

[John from Bootle]

Of course the PL could charge any club, any player any official with anything they so desired but the burden of proof in proving the case would have fallen fully on the PL.

Proving a subjective matter, which a claim to disrepute is, based on the PL rulebook in place at the time would be not backed up by any specific breech of a rule.

Do I believe the 6 clubs acted honourably, no. Should there been rules in place to stop this sort of declaration of UDI, of course there should be but the fact that no charges were bought is a clear indication to me that the PL legal team realised that the rule book wasn’t fit for purpose

Burden of proof my arse! It's the most open and shut case I've ever seen. Let me remind you of a few things:

The roar from outside Stamford Bridge reverberated around a corner of southwest London, but it was felt throughout the footballing world. Chelsea's team bus was marooned outside their home ground, just a couple of hours before kickoff against Brighton & Hove Albion on Tuesday night. It led to Chelsea legend and the club's technical advisor, Petr Cech, coming out onto Fulham Road, pleading with Chelsea's fans to move on, promising to "sort it out" and reminding them "you have a team.

in a year when fans have been unable to attend matches due to the coronavirus pandemic and the sport has reverberated around empty stadiums, the club owners can be under no illusion as to how important supporters are to football. Even Tottenham Hotspur sacking Jose Mourinho was relegated in the news agenda by this seismic event in football.

The level of anger prompted the UK's government into action. Oliver Dowden, the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, posted on Twitter: "Football supporters are the heartbeat of our national sport and any major decisions made should have their backing" and said the clubs involved "must answer to their fans and the wider footballing community before taking any further steps."

Despite the growing furore, the clubs all published their statements of intent to join the breakaway league. The first landed at 11:15 p.m. BST on Sunday, with others dropping through to the early hours of Monday morning. AST responded to Arsenal's statement, describing it as: "The death of Arsenal as a sporting institution."

 

[WestStandLower]

FFS, why is anyone giving this feller the time of day on this?

He knows f.a. about Everton and this Commission's inquiry.

Oh the irony of the comment in relation to the commission enquiry. As for giving him the time of day try reading what is written as opposed to dismissing any comment that doesn’t accord with your view on things.

 

[WestStandLower]

Burden of proof my arse! It's the most open and shut case I've ever seen. Let me remind you of a few things:

So three extracts from articles in the press prove that the threshold has been surpassed? And dismiss it as much as you like the onus is on the PL to prove a charge beyond reasonable doubt and certainly not based on press articles

Don’t get confused because I have never defended the 6 club’s actions nor have I suggested that I can’t see that they acted in even close to honourably and yes there should have been something that the powers that be could have relied on when lodging charges but and this continues to be my point the rules as written as opposed to how people think they should be applied weren’t fit for purpose and only after the horse has bolted as it were do the rules now cover such eventualities

 

[John from Bootle]

So three extracts from articles in the press prove that the threshold has been surpassed? And dismiss it as much as you like the onus is on the PL to prove a charge beyond reasonable doubt and certainly not based on press articles

Don’t get confused because I have never defended the 6 club’s actions nor have I suggested that I can’t see that they acted in even close to honourably and yes there should have been something that the powers that be could have relied on when lodging charges but and this continues to be my point the rules as written as opposed to how people think they should be applied weren’t fit for purpose and only after the horse has bolted as it were do the rules now cover such eventualities

Nothing to do with articles in the press. I just used information provided by the press to remind you of events that actually happened.

You're talking through your arse mate.

Bringing the game in to disrepute:

A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute....

 

[Trublue12]

There's been a few Internet mumours (unsure if true) of Liverpool Chelsea etc getting charged. Be like the Premier league using us as a test case. Hopefully we'll just get a suspended sentence.

 

[WestStandLower]

Or getting on board that the PL is more concerned about image and brand that being fair or strict.

The ESP would in time eclipse the PL or rival it for revenue the more the "big teams" concentrate on it. That's bad on the brand and TV money.

Their punishment was never going to be harsh because it looks bad and they don't want to fall out with these teams (end of the day it was a power grab by clubs who are losing money).

Why was PIF rejected to take over Newcastle? Piracy over broadcast games. Couple of back handers, stopped transmission of those games...now everything is fine. Bumper TV deal and Newcastle play every Sunday at half 5 for prime time in Saudi.

It's all a game.

Whether they feel Everton are expendable for that game... we'll see

Quite an interesting post and although I don’t necessarily agree in full I do think you make some valid points.

I personally fear more the USA owners than I do the likes of PIF . And yes I include Chelsea’s owners in that number.

When the PL was formed it was all about money and I suspect even in their wildest dreams those in charge of the breakaway ever thought that the numbers would be where they are now.

Before the formation of the PL the majority of clubs were owned and run by UK families or institutions. In those days hitherto most owners had historically been deemed to be more along the lines of benefactors many with local links who saw the benefits of being involved with and enabling a club to achieve.

Technology for one and ever more wealth for another has resulted in the odd few clubs new owners ( and RAs involvement falls under this ) to buy and achieve wider influence they are so fabulously wealthy a few hundred million here or there is equivalent to say a £ to most of us.

With more money we saw players wages inflated, agents sticking their noses into the trough but all that happened is yet more money through bigger TV deals elevated sponsorship and commercial deals and yep increased admission charges.

But now those US entrepreneurs see yet more opportunities . Advances in marketing, use of yet more technology is neigh on impossible for them resist.I don’t think it’s quite a cartel but starting with the 6 ESL had they been expelled I personally suspect it would have played right into the owners hands

The imposition of UEFAs limits stating at 90% then down to 80% then 70% of turnover in respect of squad costs will do nothing to protect the league all its doing is opening up the opportunity down the line for those “ entrepreneurs “ to get a return on their investments

The concept of FFP was sound in that attempted to deal with debt. Had they quite simply had that a club would be in breach of FFP if their creditors in respect of sums due within 12 months ( after allowing for debt associated to infrastructure) exceeded say 75% of annual turnover then they failed FFP and then have a sliding scale of sanctions linked to the % by which they failed. If owners wanted to increase equity so be-it, if an associated company wanted to pay silly amount for naming rights or the like it was their money so again so be it.

Debt is the danger. Some would say that doesn’t make for a competitive league and no it doesn’t but the truth is the PL will almost certainly the way FFP is structured open up the gap even more

 

[Simon Buttle]

There's been a few Internet mumours (unsure if true) of Liverpool Chelsea etc getting charged. Be like the Premier league using us as a test case. Hopefully we'll just get a suspended sentence.

It's no secret that Chelsea have to make a champions league place this season otherwise they are potentially in big trouble from a finance point of view.

 

[davek]

Oh the irony of the comment in relation to the commission enquiry. As for giving him the time of day try reading what is written as opposed to dismissing any comment that doesn’t accord with your view on things.

You have as much to offer on that subject as anyone else without any knowledge of the process going on right now = f.a.

This is a game of wait and see.

 

[HalfTimeSayers]

You have as much to offer on that subject as anyone else without any knowledge of the process going on right now = f.a.

This is a game of wait and see.

Never seen so much factual certainty based on hearsay and guesswork.

 

[davek]

Never seen so much factual certainty based on hearsay and guesswork.

Experts crawling out of the woodwork.

A feller two rows back from him at 'The Bridge' heard this and that.

FFS, the absurdity of it.