Finances

[Deleted member 28206]

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2011/05/18/sportscribddoc.pdf


here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/may/19/football-club-accounts-debt

and ..here

interesting read

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/19/premier-league-finances-black-hole

 

[markp]

Very intresting,dont know whether all that means we are in with a shout when uefa sanctions kick in,or we will lag even further behind.

 

[kenada_blue]

Very intresting,dont know whether all that means we are in with a shout when uefa sanctiopns kick in,or we will lag even further behind.

Doesn't matter if you don't qualify for Europe and imo they don't mean much these regulations

We won't get a new owner that will pump money into the the club though based on the rules

 

[Matt Damon]

Doesn't matter if you don't qualify for Europe and imo they don't mean much these regulations

They mean more for those teams looking to get into Europe like Everton for sure, however if say Club A. Spends a huge wedge in Year 1. And makes Europe in Year 3. He could find he's still prevented from playing in Europe.

So what would be the point of those other clubs not following the rules, spending that money they don't have and not being able to play?

We won't get a new owner that will pump money into the the club though based on the rules

RUBBISH. No limit on INFRASTRUCTURE investment. That is where the real value of the club will be RE-EMPHASISED.

Downward pressure on wages.

Its a positive for the club and a better and properly regulated sport, will find it EASIER to get investment in.

Particularly club's like Everton who haven't tapped anywhere near their revenue base, and haven't yet had a Stadium Renovation/Expansion etc.

 

[kenada_blue]

They mean more for those teams looking to get into Europe like Everton for sure, however if say Club A. Spends a huge wedge in Year 1. And makes Europe in Year 3. He could find he's still prevented from playing in Europe.

So what would be the point of those other clubs not following the rules, spending that money they don't have and not being able to play?



RUBBISH. No limit on INFRASTRUCTURE investment. That is where the real value of the club will be RE-EMPHASISED.

Downward pressure on wages.

Its a positive for the club and a better and properly regulated sport, will find it EASIER to get investment in.

Particularly club's like Everton who haven't tapped anywhere near their revenue base, and haven't yet had a Stadium Renovation/Expansion etc.

You've got to get into Europe first, which won't happen for a while as there are about 5 stronger teams than us. Mainly because they have already got a strong foundations in their squads having previously spent a few bob. And it won't stop the big clubs in europe.

And I've already said, it'll take years almost decades for Everton to get a new owner who can't put money into the club due to these regulations and could tap resources to generate money based on the above, and even then it wouldnt be anything substancial

 

[Matt Damon]

You've got to get into Europe first, which won't happen for a while as there are about 5 stronger teams than us. Mainly because they have already got a strong foundations in their squads having previously spent a few bob. And it won't stop the big clubs in europe.

And I've already said, it'll take years almost decades for Everton to get a new owner who can't put money into the club due to these regulations and could tap resources to generate money based on the above, and even then it wouldnt be anything substancial

You've fallen into the false "Regulation reduces investment" argument.

I'm a capitalist and free-market economics believer - but understand free-markets can only thrive within limits. A true free market is just a free for all. If you put boundaries on to it and give guidance you can harness the power of the market for positive effect.

Unregulated, unlimited industries have negative consequences for society and the industry. i.e. corruption, abuse of staff and employees and financial abuses.

However where an industry is - well regulated - without being overly agressive or overly passive they inevitably thrive in a general sense.


This regulation, will bring in money. Bring in money not from UBER-Billionaires like the Sheiks at Man City.

But sufficiently wealthy BUSINESS MEN/WOMEN that actually want to run PROFITABLE businesses, and who know that INFRASTRUCTURE is the way to go and not just increasing ticket prices, but to bring in more people.


Investment in football clubs will increase with these regulations. Moving away from cash splashing carpet baggers

to those investors who really want to BUILD UP football clubs.


This regulation actually OPENS up football clubs to investors that have been priced out by the the Abramovich's and the Sheiks of this world.

 

[kenada_blue]

You've fallen into the false "Regulation reduces investment" argument.

I'm a capitalist and free-market economics believer - but understand free-markets can only thrive within limits. A true free market is just a free for all. If you put boundaries on to it and give guidance you can harness the power of the market for positive effect.

Unregulated, unlimited industries have negative consequences for society and the industry. i.e. corruption, abuse of staff and employees and financial abuses.

However where an industry is - well regulated - without being overly agressive or overly passive they inevitably thrive in a general sense.


This regulation, will bring in money. Bring in money not from UBER-Billionaires like the Sheiks at Man City.

But sufficiently wealthy BUSINESS MEN/WOMEN that actually want to run PROFITABLE businesses, and who know that INFRASTRUCTURE is the way to go and not just increasing ticket prices, but to bring in more people.


Investment in football clubs will increase with these regulations. Moving away from cash splashing carpet baggers

to those investors who really want to BUILD UP football clubs.


This regulation actually OPENS up football clubs to investors that have been priced out by the the Abramovich's and the Sheiks of this world.

Which will take decades for a club like us. If we were going to benefit from the regulations we should've done something or be in a better position 3 to 4 years ago. You got the get rid of the owners, new stadium, new marketting, lower the 50mill debt to the banks. Were not even doing anything right now. European football and a new future for the club is is light years away. Clubs will always spend more than us with our current situation and that wont change for years.

And also, if this does stop clubs spending, how to we sell to buy? If no one is going to spend silly money on transfers, we will find it tough to step on.

There's plenty of clubs with business men at the helm, only chelsea and city are the exception to the rule.

And if there was an owner interested in us, the right one, any sensibile buyer would've done it years ago.

 

[chicoazul]

 

[Matt Damon]

Which will take decades for a club like us. If we were going to benefit from the regulations we should've done something or be in a better position 3 to 4 years ago. You got the get rid of the owners, new stadium, new marketting, lower the 50mill debt to the banks. Were not even doing anything right now. European football and a new future for the club is is light years away. Clubs will always spend more than us with our current situation and that wont change for years.

And also, if this does stop clubs spending, how to we sell to buy? If no one is going to spend silly money on transfers, we will find it tough to step on.

There's plenty of clubs with business men at the helm, only chelsea and city are the exception to the rule.

And if there was an owner interested in us, the right one, any sensibile buyer would've done it years ago.

No. No. NO.

Decades? Decades?? A team can be transformed as the result of injuries and retirements within 5 years. This is why the youth teams are now becoming a big focus for many teams.


It would take no more than three years to get a stadium (redevelopment) in full place following some investment that this regulation encourages (INFRASTRUCTURE spending does not count!).


There's only so many times I can explain this regulation to you. Its obvious you're just not listening to what it actually means and its implications.


Moyes also doesn't quite understand it or isn't acknowledging it in his comments today (as he's refering to short term), Medium to long term its a different situation. Plus he's a football manager not a club director or business man. He doesn't understand that this will subtly change the face of football over the next two and a half years in rather dramatic effects.

And I'll say it again. It pressuring down wages, amongst other things actually ENCOURAGES investment.

Especially in a club like ours due to the stadium and untapped revenues and scope for growth that THEY CAN FINANCE because INFRASTRUCTURE doesn't count and infrastructure spending investment has no limit!!!!!

ergo a big increase in club value could be achieved.


The issue is - is Kenwright and co. prepared to acknowledge that they can't finance it and move on?

 

[chicoazul]

 

[Muggins]

Boom!

 

[kenada_blue]

No. No. NO.

Decades? Decades?? A team can be transformed as the result of injuries and retirements within 5 years. This is why the youth teams are now becoming a big focus for many teams.


It would take no more than three years to get a stadium (redevelopment) in full place following some investment that this regulation encourages (INFRASTRUCTURE spending does not count!).


There's only so many times I can explain this regulation to you. Its obvious you're just not listening to what it actually means and its implications.


Moyes also doesn't quite understand it or isn't acknowledging it in his comments today (as he's refering to short term), Medium to long term its a different situation. Plus he's a football manager not a club director or business man. He doesn't understand that this will subtly change the face of football over the next two and a half years in rather dramatic effects.

And I'll say it again. It pressuring down wages, amongst other things actually ENCOURAGES investment.

Especially in a club like ours due to the stadium and untapped revenues and scope for growth that THEY CAN FINANCE because INFRASTRUCTURE doesn't count and infrastructure spending investment has no limit!!!!!

ergo a big increase in club value could be achieved.


The issue is - is Kenwright and co. prepared to acknowledge that they can't finance it and move on?

There lies the reality at the end.

You're telling me it would take 3 years or so for a owner to buy the club for say 90million, clear its 40million odd debt, spend a further 100million redeveloping gp, all this on top of marketting the club globally as well investing in the team, lowering wages, and crack the top 4?

Dreamland mate. Will take decades for us. No invester will want to put that amount of money in and increase the debt of the club to sit around for it to self sustain...all this by putting next to nothing towards players.

You've even said it will stop sugar daddys owning clubs. Which means we won't get one. What we could get is a randy lerner type....oh that's not worked out either. Okay..well have to get an owner so business savvy, he'd be unique to the prem you'd ask yourself why do they want a football club in the first place.

The clubs like citeh etc have planned this over years, spend big got a foothold of power and have things in place to lower debt. That power isn't going to shift

 

[Matt Damon]

There lies the reality at the end.

You're telling me it would take 3 years or so for a owner to buy the club for say 90million, clear its 40million odd debt, spend a further 100million redeveloping gp, all this on top of marketting the club globally as well investing in the team, lowering wages, and crack the top 4?

Dreamland mate. Will take decades for us. No invester will want to put that amount of money in and increase the debt of the club to sit around for it to self sustain...all this by putting next to nothing towards players.

You've even said it will stop sugar daddys owning clubs. Which means we won't get one. What we could get is a randy lerner type....oh that's not worked out either. Okay..well have to get an owner so business savvy, he'd be unique to the prem you'd ask yourself why do they want a football club in the first place.

The clubs like citeh etc have planned this over years, spend big got a foothold of power and have things in place to lower debt. That power isn't going to shift

You're just incapable of seeing the big picture. So it's not worth explaining it to you any further.