Fernandes : The Final Word

[Nebbiolo]

I'm eagerly awaiting the following thread from MoyesBlueWhiteArmy:

"Tim Howard, replacing sooner or later?"

(Complete with poll no doubt.)

You mean that "Yankie"?

 

[sotnas]

In Manny's last season in Portugal Yes I would say he was more highly rated than Lucho. I remember Manny being hot property when Benfica where in the Champions Leaugue and everyone was reported to be after him.

At the moment Lucho probably is the better player as I've said. Thats is mainly down to experience and stablity in my opinion. If Fernandes had got a club and sticked to it after he'd left Benfica then I think he'd be at a higher level than Lucho. Thats my opinion anyway.

In terms of talent and potential there's no comptetition in my opinion. Fernandes will be a better player in a few years if he settles down and finds a club that he can adapt to.

Fernandes's isn't going to the Euro's because he hasn't hardly played this year. Moutinho and Veloso have. To be honest I think Veloso, Fernandes and Moutinho are Portugal's midfield future with Ronaldo and Nani/Quesersma on the wings. All they need is a striker now.

Sorry to disagree with you again. But Fernandes was never considered as having much better potential than Lucho. Lucho was class right from the start. The most influential player in the league, no doubt about it. Even in his first season in Europe.

Fernandes was considered a good prospect. He's strong, he's got skill and all the attributes to be a great player. But he was never the hottest property in the country. Actually, he was never an undisputable starter at Benfica. He had a couple of great games in the champions league and that was it. He needs to be more intelligent on the pitch. And he sure needs stability to grow at some club.

Unfortunately, Lucho wouldn't consider a move to us. Specially when he has a good market in Spain and in Italy. Everton still can't be up there with Porto in terms of CL football or being a club that challenges for major honors. And Porto never pulled the plug. they just didn't want to sell and the player wasn't interested in a move to Everton.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Sorry to disagree with you again. But Fernandes was never considered as having much better potential than Lucho. Lucho was class right from the start. The most influential player in the league, no doubt about it. Even in his first season in Europe.

Fernandes was considered a good prospect. He's strong, he's got skill and all the attributes to be a great player. But he was never the hottest property in the country. Actually, he was never an undisputable starter at Benfica. He had a couple of great games in the champions league and that was it. He needs to be more intelligent on the pitch. And he sure needs stability to grow at some club.

Unfortunately, Lucho wouldn't consider a move to us. Specially when he has a good market in Spain and in Italy. Everton still can't be up there with Porto in terms of CL football or being a club that challenges for major honors. And Porto never pulled the plug. they just didn't want to sell and the player wasn't interested in a move to Everton.

Maybe I am being a bit biast as I rate Fernandes highly. The problem I have with Lucho is whenever I see him play he's average. I proabably just catch his average games. You see him more than me and judging by others he's top quality. I have the same problem with Ibrahimavic at Juventes. Everyone tells me he's the dogs bollocks but whenever I watch him he flatters to decieve.

Fernandes was always a starter when I was studying in Lisbon. Him alongside Petit where in midfield when Gio Trapattoni was manager from what I remember. They won the League that season. He also played regularly under Koeman when they went far in the Champions League. According to his stats he racked up 60 odd appearences in 3 seasons which is decent.

I never said he was the hottest property in Portugal but I definatly remember him being highly rated. Especially amongst Benfica fans who loved the kid until he left them.

The performances that really stood out for me with Fernandes where the Villarreal and Liverpool games. He was class in both and got the better of Riquelme and Gerrard on both occasions. I seem to remember Gerrard rejecting a few Benfica players just to swap shirts with him. When I found out we where signing him I was exstatic. A player of his quality and potential usually wouldn't join a club like Everton.

Out of the likes of Fernandes, Moutinho and Veloso I think Fernandes would be the most likely to make a career in England. He just have the right tools to make it here. Moutinho I think would struggle. Excellent attitude and a quality player but his position is a hard one to fill in England. He's also a little on the lightweight side. Veloso maybe but I haven't seen enough of him of late to comment.

Both deserve to be in the Portgual squad ahead of Fernandes though. Not nessersarily because there better players but because they've played regularly and have stability in there career's which Fernandes sadly doesn't. If he gets himself sorted and finds a club he'll be at there level in my opinion. If he doesn't then he'll flatter to decive wherever he goes.

Agreed on Lucho. We would never even have a chance of signing him. I can see him moving to Spain or Italy if anything. He wouldn't even be interested in joining us. He's got bigger fish to fry than Everton.

Anyway, good discussion mate. I try to keep up on my Portuguese football but you know alot more about it than me being Portuguese.
​

 

[Cal]

There's some real talent in the Portuguese league, Mountinho is the one player i'd love above any, he's superb.

Liedson (getting on abit now i know), Veloso, Quaresma, Farias, Lucho, Lisandro Lopez, Lima etc

I'm just a massive fan of Portuguese football in general, support Porto.

Anyway's doubt Quaresma would be interested in signing for us unless we got Champs League

 

[ToxtethBlue]

There's some real talent in the Portuguese league, Mountinho is the one player i'd love above any, he's superb.

Liedson (getting on abit now i know), Veloso, Quaresma, Farias, Lucho, Lisandro Lopez, Lima etc

I'm just a massive fan of Portuguese football in general, support Porto.

Anyway's doubt Quaresma would be interested in signing for us unless we got Champs League

Agreed. All they need is a decent striker now and there looking good for the future. Maybe Hugo Almeida can step up.

I've watched a bit of Bruno Gama lately and he seems to be a good prospect. A winger/second striker who plays for Vitória. Could be one for the future.

There under 21 team is one of the best around in my opinion. Definatly as good as Holland's. Sadly alot of them seem to have big egos and think there better than they are. They should have easlily gone further in the Tornument last summer.

 

[Cal]

Agreed. All they need is a decent striker now and there looking good for the future. Maybe Hugo Almeida can step up.

I've watched a bit of Bruno Gama lately and he seems to be a good prospect. A winger/second striker who plays for Vitória. Could be one for the future.

Ye, there's some serious talent in the Liga that we need to look into.

Defo another Ronaldo coming out of Portugal soon.

 

[sotnas]

Maybe I am being a bit biast as I rate Fernandes highly. The problem I have with Lucho is whenever I see him play he's average. I proabably just catch his average games. You see him more than me and judging by others he's top quality. I have the same problem with Ibrahimavic at Juventes. Everyone tells me he's the dogs bollocks but whenever I watch him he flatters to decieve.

Fernandes was always a starter when I was studying in Lisbon. Him alongside Petit where in midfield when Gio Trapattoni was manager from what I remember. They won the League that season. He also played regularly under Koeman when they went far in the Champions League. According to his stats he racked up 60 odd appearences in 3 seasons which is decent.​

I never said he was the hottest property in Portugal but I definatly remember him being highly rated. Especially amongst Benfica fans who loved the kid until he left them.​

The performances that really stood out for me with Fernandes where the Villarreal and Liverpool games. He was class in both and got the better of Riquelme and Gerrard on both occasions. I seem to remember Gerrard rejecting a few Benfica players just to swap shirts with him. When I found out we where signing him I was exstatic. A player of his quality and potential usually wouldn't join a club like Everton.​

Out of the likes of Fernandes, Moutinho and Veloso I think Fernandes would be the most likely to make a career in England. He just have the right tools to make it here. Moutinho I think would struggle. Excellent attitude and a quality player but his position is a hard one to fill in England. He's also a little on the lightweight side. Veloso maybe but I haven't seen enough of him of late to comment.​

Both deserve to be in the Portgual squad ahead of Fernandes though. Not nessersarily because there better players but because they've played regularly and have stability in there career's which Fernandes sadly doesn't. If he gets himself sorted and finds a club he'll be at there level in my opinion. If he doesn't then he'll flatter to decive wherever he goes.​

Agreed on Lucho. We would never even have a chance of signing him. I can see him moving to Spain or Italy if anything. He wouldn't even be interested in joining us. He's got bigger fish to fry than Everton.​

Anyway, good discussion mate. I try to keep up on my Portuguese football but you know alot more about it than me being Portuguese. ​

Moutinho, yeah he's lightweight but he's injury free, compensates his lack of physical presence with a high dosis of agressivness and he's got to have some engine in his back. Even when he's not in his peak, his work rate and cleverness makes him a invaluable player. Can play anywhere in the midfield. I think he needed to go to England to refine his abilities. I don't think he would struggle. He could become some sort of Scholes (same size, same attitude, same mental strength). Just for the record Moutinho is only 21 and has over 100 league games. This proves how reliable and robust he is.

Veloso is a slower but bigger guy. He's more inconsistent but has that eagle eye that allows him to make that killer ball. He's a center back in his origins, but he's better suited for the midfield role, in my opinion.

People always said that without the ball Moutinho could do everything Manny could. But with ball in his feet he's more creative and a much better passer of the ball.

Still Manny brings some physical approach to the game. He's strong going forward, he's aggressive and he has excellent individual skill. But he needs to settle very quickly or he'll be an under achiever.

Lucho...well, it took me a while to understand why people were making such a fuss. He seemed pretty average, like you said. But I started to focus my attention on him more, and guess what... I got it.

He is that kind of player that make hard things look simple. He's good covering for others, he's excellent off the ball, he's a hell of a passer and he scores a lot. His physical ability allows him to run all day. Great touch, great keeper of the ball also great team player (he can bring others into the game). He's a very complete player. But as I said, he does everything look so simple that sometimes people confuse simplicity with average. But in truth is pure class.

Moutinho is the most similar player in the league.

If you guys enjoy the portuguese league keep an eye on Simon Vukcevic.

 

[sotnas]

Agreed. All they need is a decent striker now and there looking good for the future. Maybe Hugo Almeida can step up.

I've watched a bit of Bruno Gama lately and he seems to be a good prospect. A winger/second striker who plays for Vitória. Could be one for the future.

There under 21 team is one of the best around in my opinion. Definatly as good as Holland's. Sadly alot of them seem to have big egos and think there better than they are. They should have easlily gone further in the Tornument last summer.

Actually I think portuguese teams are pretty poor, tactically speaking. Coaches confuse tactical play with defensive play.

Portuguese sides, in general, like to play in the counter and rely on the usually good technique of the players.

The players lack an attacking routine, especially when it comes to movement.

That's the main problem for us.

That's why we're so good against the dutch. They just keep attacking leaving space behind. But when it comes to Greece, Italy or France, we struggle, because they are so defensive and give little space to attack. With those teams, we lack movement, just like the brazilians do.

Here people often appreciate great dribbles, but we don't value that football with one touch, just like beach football fashion. Players like to dwell on the ball.

If we could conciliate that special movement ability british players have with the talent of portuguese players, we'd be always one of the greatest teams.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Moutinho, yeah he's lightweight but he's injury free, compensates his lack of physical presence with a high dosis of agressivness and he's got to have some engine in his back. Even when he's not in his peak, his work rate and cleverness makes him a invaluable player. Can play anywhere in the midfield. I think he needed to go to England to refine his abilities. I don't think he would struggle. He could become some sort of Scholes (same size, same attitude, same mental strength). Just for the record Moutinho is only 21 and has over 100 league games. This proves how reliable and robust he is.

Veloso is a slower but bigger guy. He's more inconsistent but has that eagle eye that allows him to make that killer ball. He's a center back in his origins, but he's better suited for the midfield role, in my opinion.

People always said that without the ball Moutinho could do everything Manny could. But with ball in his feet he's more creative and a much better passer of the ball.

Still Manny brings some physical approach to the game. He's strong going forward, he's aggressive and he has excellent individual skill. But he needs to settle very quickly or he'll be an under achiever.

Lucho...well, it took me a while to understand why people were making such a fuss. He seemed pretty average, like you said. But I started to focus my attention on him more, and guess what... I got it.

He is that kind of player that make hard things look simple. He's good covering for others, he's excellent off the ball, he's a hell of a passer and he scores a lot. His physical ability allows him to run all day. Great touch, great keeper of the ball also great team player (he can bring others into the game). He's a very complete player. But as I said, he does everything look so simple that sometimes people confuse simplicity with average. But in truth is pure class.

Moutinho is the most similar player in the league.

If you guys enjoy the portuguese league keep an eye on Simon Vukcevic.

I still not sure about Moutinho. I see the comparisons with Scholes but Moutinho plays a little further forward. The closest player I can compare him to positionally is Deco who he'll eventually take over from in a few years. If he where to be a success in England then I feel it would be in a 4-2-1-2 with two holding midfielders behind him.

I think it would have to be a fluid formation to accomadate him. If he joined a team that play 4-4-2 then I can't see where he'd fit in. Maybe I'm wrong. He's an excellent character and has the best mentality out of the three.

Veloso and Fernandes I think would be fine. There out and out centre midfielders and have the physical abilities to cope here. I think both would have to add a bit of grit and detirmination to there game but that would come with time.

Is Moutinho a better passer than Manny? Thats debateable. There different types of passers. Manny for me is a deep lying midfielder. He's at his best when he's dropping deep supporting the defense and bringing people into play with his passing from deeper positions. Moutinho is definatly more creative but he's at this best in the final third. As I've said there different.

I'll have to take a closer look at Lucho. Maybe I'm missing something. As you've said he's probably a deceptively effective player. Nothing flashy just very effective. He certainly has the physical attributes going for him. Maybe he could come to England for someone like Chelsea and revel.

Who do you support in Portugal?

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Actually I think portuguese teams are pretty poor, tactically speaking. Coaches confuse tactical play with defensive play.

Portuguese sides, in general, like to play in the counter and rely on the usually good technique of the players.

The players lack an attacking routine, especially when it comes to movement.

That's the main problem for us.

That's why we're so good against the dutch. They just keep attacking leaving space behind. But when it comes to Greece, Italy or France, we struggle, because they are so defensive and give little space to attack. With those teams, we lack movement, just like the brazilians do.

Here people often appreciate great dribbles, but we don't value that football with one touch, just like beach football fashion. Players like to dwell on the ball.

If we could conciliate that special movement ability british players have with the talent of portuguese players, we'd be always one of the greatest teams.

Agreed. Indvidually you've got some fantastic players but you never seem to gel as a team tactically. I guess its about getting the right balance of players.

 

[sotnas]

I still not sure about Moutinho. I see the comparisons with Scholes but Moutinho plays a little further forward. The closest player I can compare him to positionally is Deco who he'll eventually take over from in a few years. If he where to be a success in England then I feel it would be in a 4-2-1-2 with two holding midfielders behind him.

I think it would have to be a fluid formation to accomadate him. If he joined a team that play 4-4-2 then I can't see where he'd fit in. Maybe I'm wrong. He's an excellent character and has the best mentality out of the three.

Veloso and Fernandes I think would be fine. There out and out centre midfielders and have the physical abilities to cope here. I think both would have to add a bit of grit and detirmination to there game but that would come with time.

Is Moutinho a better passer than Manny? Thats debateable. There different types of passers. Manny for me is a deep lying midfielder. He's at his best when he's dropping deep supporting the defense and bringing people into play with his passing from deeper positions. Moutinho is definatly more creative but he's at this best in the final third. As I've said there different.

I'll have to take a closer look at Lucho. Maybe I'm missing something. As you've said he's probably a deceptively effective player. Nothing flashy just very effective. He certainly has the physical attributes going for him. Maybe he could come to England for someone like Chelsea and revel.

Who do you support in Portugal?

I support Sporting, for great sadness of my father. He supports the local red [Poor language removed] .

Well, Moutinho can play anywhere. Sporting display a diamond formation and he plays anywhere. Usually he plays on the side of the diamond but he has played a lot of times as the holding midfielder. (If you can, look for the last Sporting vs Benfica (aka red [Poor language removed]) match and look at him in the second half playing as a defensive midfielder - just one word Superb!! I'll leave the link http://videos.sapo.pt/4m22IWH1Mg39cYVsYL88).

His tactical discipline allows him to play from deep. And he just makes the game faster. Can be anywhere, closing opponents down, lauching attacks, turning the ball to opposite flank.