Ferguson

[tsubaki]

I just gave an example of the Moriori people earlier mate. So that's two groups

the Taino were wiped out as well, so thats three.

 

[RaleighBlue]

Doesn't fit the narrative mate.

I'm sure the cop just saw that the kid was black and decided to end his life.

Not picking on you Bill, I just wanted to pose this question in general:

In what situation would it be ok for a police officer to fire six shots into an unarmed man?

I get that he was a criminal, but I believe that if I were the one suspected of this robbery, then I would not be dead today. That is not to say that there isn't information that is as yet unknown, nor is it specifically damning this particular officer, because as I said, there may be fore information.

I do believe, however, that in general police officers in the USA are more apt to pull their guns on African Americans than whites. If he was white, I suspect he would have been maced and tazed at worst.

That's the fundamental issue that is being obscured by each source. Some by claiming Michael Brown's sainthood, and others by focusing on his crime. It doesn't matter whether he robbed a store or not - the punishment should not be death as decided by a police officer. We have due process rights.

 

[RaleighBlue]

Haha...sorry about that. Had no idea.

I don't want to give up on it either but EVERYDAY, I read or hear about stories where intolerance is front and center and it just doesn't seem to be getting any better. It really is that bad here.

This is the core issue.

I don't think the particulars of the case are the most important thing in this discussion. It's a general issue that is occurring in America in which battle lines are drawn as absolutes on every issue and every division.

 

[SerenityNigh]

There is an ongoing attempt to dirty Brown's name. The police department admitted that the officer who shot him wouldn't have known that Brown was a suspect in the robbery considering it had just happened a few minutes previously.

Many eyewitnesses have also said that Brown was shot while surrendering.

Furthermore, journalists are being arrested and threatened for doing their job, a clear violation of the first amendment.

Horrible situation in every respect. Regardless what Brown had previously done, he had done nothing that required public execution and (from all appearances) the policeman was never in danger (and so would not have been responding in self-defense).

 

[SerenityNigh]

At the root of all of this is intolerance. it's a huge problem in the US and it's showing itself in incidents across the country. It comes equally from both sides of every issue - justice, inequality, education, economics, government, religion, culture, environment and on and on.

Until we find a way to overcome intolerance including the underlying ignorance, lack of rational, logical, and critical thinking, I can only see things getting worse.

Intolerance and racism is a major issue, but this issue is police departments that are over-equipped and under-trained (and under-staffed). Roided up, unprepared policeman working too many shifts by themselves, making poor decisions because they think the solution is in their hands and not in their mouth.

My brother in law was a policeman for several years and left because it wasn't as "exciting" as he'd liked (may be editorializing a bit). The policeman's job is largely social work, with some investigation and interdiction of violence. There may yet be facts released that change the picture, but it seems clear now that the policeman's job could easily have been completed with words; no need to pull a weapon on this kid (whether the kid is good or bad).

 

[SerenityNigh]

I'm sure there was a massive genocide in Rwanda during the 90s, there was even a film about it set in a hotel. Can't remember it's name.

California?

 

[SerenityNigh]

I haven't completely given up on us yet.

To validate my optimism I will be tolerant of you calling me and assuming I am a sir.

Yes, she's a ginger. No niceties like Sir or Ma'am required.

 

[RaleighBlue]

Intolerance and racism is a major issue, but this issue is police departments that are over-equipped and under-trained (and under-staffed). Roided up, unprepared policeman working too many shifts by themselves, making poor decisions because they think the solution is in their hands and not in their mouth.

My brother in law was a policeman for several years and left because it wasn't as "exciting" as he'd liked (may be editorializing a bit). The policeman's job is largely social work, with some investigation and interdiction of violence. There may yet be facts released that change the picture, but it seems clear now that the policeman's job could easily have been completed with words; no need to pull a weapon on this kid (whether the kid is good or bad).

This has a profound psychological effect on both the police and the citizenry as well. When a department is equipped with military vehicles and weapons, it's not a far step for the department to believe it needs to justify the cost of those vehicles, thus they take them out. This makes the police department appear to be an invading army to the citizens. Which leads to mistrust of the police from the citizens.

It's absolutely freaking mind blowing that we've turned our police departments into literal armies.

The police should be there to protect and serve. Not search and destroy. And the equipment it designed for the second mission.

It's quite frightening.

 

[Sapie88]

California?

So that's what that songs about. I always thought it was about the horrific abuse of penicillin.

 

[SerenityNigh]

This has a profound psychological effect on both the police and the citizenry as well. When a department is equipped with military vehicles and weapons, it's not a far step for the department to believe it needs to justify the cost of those vehicles, thus they take them out. This makes the police department appear to be an invading army to the citizens. Which leads to mistrust of the police from the citizens.

It's absolutely freaking mind blowing that we've turned our police departments into literal armies.

The police should be there to protect and serve. Not search and destroy. And the equipment it designed for the second mission.

It's quite frightening.

This story is days old and the situation is not yet clear, but amazing how the entire circumstances changed when this man took the reigns:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/15/us/ferguson-missouri-police-shooting.html?_r=0

Capt. Ronald S. Johnson, the highway patrol official appointed by the governor to take over the response, immediately signaled a change in approach. Captain Johnson told reporters he had ordered troopers to remove their tear-gas masks, and in the early evening he accompanied several groups of protesters through the streets, clasping hands, listening to stories and marching alongside them.

Continue reading the main storySlide Show

SLIDE SHOW|13 Photos
Protests in Ferguson Spread to Other Cities
Protests in Ferguson Spread to Other Cities
CreditWhitney Curtis for The New York Times

The local police, who had been criticized for not identifying the officer who shot Mr. Brown, said Friday morning that they would release the name of the officer involved.

On Thursday night, the armored vehicles and police cars were gone, and the atmosphere was celebratory. A street barricaded on previous nights was filled with slow-moving cars blasting their horns. A man played a drum across the street from a convenience store that was looted this week. And there were few signs of police officers, let alone a forceful response.

Kimaly Diouf, co-owner of Rehoboth Pharmacy, said the reason for the difference was simple: “Because they’re not tear gassing us tonight.”

Captain Johnson, who is African-American and grew up in the area, said: “We’re just starting today anew. We’re starting a new partnership today. We’re going to move forward today, to put yesterday and the day before behind us.”

 

[RaleighBlue]

This story is days old and the situation is not yet clear, but amazing how the entire circumstances changed when this man took the reigns:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/15/us/ferguson-missouri-police-shooting.html?_r=0

I think it happened too late. The cat's out of the bag now and the town is seeing troublemakers looting for lootings sake. But I'm certain it would never have escalated to this point if the police had been open and transparent and had not come dressed as an army with armoured vehicles and military assault weapons.

 

[RAFUH]

Yes, she's a ginger. No niceties like Sir or Ma'am required.

Wait. I don't get niceties because I'm ginger??

 

[RAFUH]

This has a profound psychological effect on both the police and the citizenry as well. When a department is equipped with military vehicles and weapons, it's not a far step for the department to believe it needs to justify the cost of those vehicles, thus they take them out. This makes the police department appear to be an invading army to the citizens. Which leads to mistrust of the police from the citizens.

It's absolutely freaking mind blowing that we've turned our police departments into literal armies.

The police should be there to protect and serve. Not search and destroy. And the equipment it designed for the second mission.

It's quite frightening.

To some degree, I think this comes from an overreaction to the preceived threat from terroists. The need to feel prepared for the worst leading to a need to justify the equipment. I haven't done the research, but I'd guess you could trace the increasing aquisition of heavy equipment to 9/11

 

[Dell Boy]

Is the UK really that much better? I'm not even sure it's purely a race issue. It seems to me, at least in part, it's a case of the poor/disenfranchised/uneducated underclass being shepherded by gangs and criminals into kicking off. Once it starts it's then an easy bandwagon for mischief makers to jump on board. It was only a few summers ago we had "riots" here.

The middle 90% of society has to make a stand but realistically we're all too lazy or self-obsessed to do anything.

 

[SerenityNigh]

To some degree, I think this comes from an overreaction to the preceived threat from terroists. The need to feel prepared for the worst leading to a need to justify the equipment. I haven't done the research, but I'd guess you could trace the increasing aquisition of heavy equipment to 9/11

Police have been arresting pilots recently for no reason; sometimes under the auspices of searching for drug traffickers, sometimes under a presumed "national security" role. There are many stories like this, but this is my favorite:

Pilot Arrested, Charged for Doing Nothing

By now, hopefully, you’ve heard the story of pilot Robin Fleming’s lazy glider flight one fine day last summer in the blue skies of beautiful South Carolina. Well, that’s the way it should have turned out, but it didn’t. Instead, that would-be great summer flight ended with Robin getting thrown in jail after a high-stakes criminal drama.

Except in this case, there was no crime involved. Not even a whiff of one. Mr. Fleming, an articulate and conscientious 70-year-old glider pilot and instructor was instead arrested simply for going flying. The presumed offense was his briefly flying over a nuclear power plant at approximately 1,000 feet AGL while looking for lift.

In her fine feature story on the subject, AOPA’s Sarah Brown details the events of the late afternoon of July 26th, 2012, when Robin was first made aware over the radio that he was being “ordered” to land his glider, a 1,100 pound max weight model that is hardly capable of crashing through a chain link fence let alone being used to damage a power plant. Local law enforcement cannot, for the record, order any pilot of an airplane in flight to do anything. (If you haven’t read the AOPA story or seen its video of the events, please check it out here.)

As Brown details in her piece, scheduled for release in the March issue of February's AOPA Pilot magazine, Fleming complied with the request to land, was detained on the spot, brought to jail, held overnight on a charge of “breach of peace,” and not released until he was bailed out late the next day. The Darlington, South Carolina, sheriff’s office denied Fleming’s request to call someone when he was initially detained, so the members of his soaring club (Bermuda High Soaring in Jefferson, South Carolina) were understandably alarmed when he didn’t return from his flight and rightly assumed that he was forced to land off airport. After not hearing from him after several hours, they organized a search for him.

Fleming was, they did not know, in jail, being held for the “offense” of flying over a nuclear plant, which was, the sheriff’s department claimed, a “no-fly” zone. When Fleming complied with the order to land and touched down at Hartsville Regional Airport, one observer there counted 17 police vehicles involved in the apprehension. The subject of the “chase” was that of an unpowered glider flown by a pilot who had willingly landed. The glider was on the ground and stopped. One can only suppose that in the hysteria of the moment, the sheriffs were calling for additional backup while hoping a stiff wind didn't pick up.

The only problem with the detention or the arrest was — and this is a big problem — there is no such kind of zone, no such regulation and no such offense. It’s hard to read this case any way other than that Fleming was arrested falsely. The charge the sheriff’s department eventually hung on Fleming, breach of peace, was a flimsy excuse for that dubious arrest. After all, how could it have been breach of peace for Fleming to do something that he was perfectly within his rights to do? It’s equivalent to someone being arrested for going 50 in a 55 mph speed limit zone and then being arrested for not breaking the law that led to the arrest. The charge was an absurdity, an assault on Mr. Fleming’s good name and an insult to all aviators. An apology was what the Darlington County Sheriff’s Department should have issued, not an arrest warrant.

As part of the settlement to make the charges go away, Fleming was, according to people familiar with the story, required to agree not to sue the sheriff’s department. If that isn’t an admission by the department of a mistake, I don’t know what is.

There are, as you probably know, no specific rules against overflying at an appropriate altitude a power plant that is not marked on the charts as being restricted airspace. Fleming was, he says, using a current sectional chart for his flight, and the chart shows no such “no-fly” zone over the power plant or no restrictions on the airspace at all. There is a notam, issued shortly after 9/11, that recommends that pilots avoid sites such as nuclear plants, but it stops far short of prohibiting flight over them.

The message, of course, is that the nightmare Robin Fleming went through could have happened to any of us. As responsible and conscientious as we might be, how can we comply with laws and regulations that don’t exist?

We salute AOPA for bringing this incident to our collective attention. Moreover, we applaud the organization's ongoing work to promote a greatly increased understanding on the part of law enforcement, from Homeland Security down to local law enforcement, of the nature of perceived airspace violations and the relative threat they present.

In this case, that threat was zero, and the response, sadly, was an eleven on a scale of ten.

Read more at http://www.flyingmag.com/blogs/going-direct/pilot-arrested-charged-doing-nothing#LwVBw5HizdphdAG3.99