Farhad Moshiri

[Deco]

In the past of course not, however in the light of Moshiri's options agreement being a matter of public record, an agreement for Usmanov to acquire "x" shares might also be similarly recorded - such an agreement is really no different from Moshiri's agreement to acquire further shares from BK, JW and AA. However there is no such public record, and I'd reckon the only reason for such inconsistencies is that no such agreement exists.

Wouldn't that agreement existing be against PL rules though?

 

[The Esk]

Wouldn't that agreement existing be against PL rules though?

Yes it would, I was getting to that as the next stage of my argument against Usmanov having an agreement to acquire Everton

 

[The Mighty Quint]

This is what I would do. Let Moshiri set it all up, get the planning sorted on the new stadium, offer my shares to the Arsenal board at my price or sell to the supporters who would snap them up. Invest in a club that can only go forward with a stadium that will enhance it's value and push it for all it's worth. Owning 30% of Arsenal must be nice, but not even having a seat on the Arsenal board would be a tad disappointing for a major investor......

That is exactly what I would do too if I had 14bn, aged 62, and looking to indulge my passion for owning my own club in the best, richest, most watched league in the world.

 

[peteblue]

No-one forced Usmanov to purchase Moshiri's shares in R&W Holdings, what a ridiculous thing to say.

I think he was being ironic .........

 

[bluestevon]

It's plausible to an extent but highly unlikely in my opinion.

Why would R&W selling 30.4% of Arsenal (under 100% ownership of Usmanov) be any more attractive than R&W selling 30.4% of Arsenal (under shared ownership of Usmanov/Moshiri) ?

Moshiri had been talking to Bill for 18 months before acquiring shares - if Usmanov had any interest in moving away from Arsenal to Everton then he/they would have arranged the disposal of their Arsenal shares at the same time and jointly acquired Everton shares.

Moshiri selling his Arsenal interest to Usmanov, and acquiring an interest with an option for a controlling interest in Everton has to be viewed as a conscious decision by both individually to increase their exposure to the Premier League - something which they could not do at Arsenal because they were blocked by Kroenke.

As the deal worked out Usmanov increases (doubles) his exposure to £400 million and Moshiri increases his exposure through the initial purchase of 49.9% of Everton, the options agreement, and the commitment to funding the team and stadium developments.

It would be highly unusual for Moshiri to reduce his exposure by allowing Usmanov into his Everton investment.

I've been consistent in this belief since day one, and I've not seen or heard any indication from any credible source that Usmanov will sell his Arsenal holdings to join Moshiri.

If I'm wrong I'll hold my hand up, but I'm pretty certain I am not.

Other interested parties meant they had to act fast or risk losing out on a project they had spent 18 months alreayd on, common sense dictates you don't sell in a situation that everyone knows you have to sell in, thus makes sense that one takes the lead and the other plays the waiting game - holding the shares in Arsenal till the times right to offload them at the best price (after the new tv deal for example).

The talk about increased exposure is all well and good mate, but Usmanov has absolutely zero benefit from going from 15 to 30% share in Arsenal, no more influence, no more say, absolutely nothign gained for him by increasing his stake, exposure only matters if it comes with either influence or aids a long term strategy to gain control and a voice, neither of these applies to the Arsenal case as Kroenke simply will never sell

So question - why does increasing his exposure aid Usmanov in any way shape or form?

You also are looking at it too clinically IMO anyway, your removing all personal relationship from the two, they obviously enjoy working togetehr and dare i say have their set peckign order in that relationship, and maybe your putting too ,much onto Moshiri wanting to strike out and make his own way, has he EVER shown any inclination of wishing to do that? or is he actually seemingly anyway perfectly happy being part of a realtionship with a more powerful figure?

Will pose 1 scenario for you here mate, Moshiri as you have stated has a plan and is massively ambitious, he is also very very intelligent and astute

Do you think he will believe that without masive investment on the scale of Usmanov that it wuill be possible to actually compete with the likes of United, Chelsea, City etc spending power - regardless of new stadium, improved commercial deals etc, which frankly will only redice the gap to ten thousand miles rather than 100m thousand

 

[Deco]

Yes it would, I was getting to that as the next stage of my argument against Usmanov having an agreement to acquire Everton

From my point of view without having any insider knowledge but thinking logically: Moshiri bought us with the view to taking us on as his own project and that vision hasn't included Usmanov.

In the future though with football the way it is, Usmanov could lose hope of controlling Arsenal - he's been very patient so far however.

 

[bluestevon]

Perhaps because Moshiri wants to go alone, or at least without Usmanov.

Anyway as with all these things, time will tell.

Mate i know your a businessman yourself, is there a possibility your projecting your own mentality onto Moshiri here, a s in the way you as a businessman would think

Remember at heart the bloke is an accountant firstly

 

[peteblue]

Wouldn't that agreement existing be against PL rules though?

Unless the agreement is a private one between two friends who worked together for years and trust each other.......just like Moshiri and his mate.......

 

[kithnou]

Well there is only one who has his own club, the other is a sleeping partner with no say forever more, is Usmanov happy with that?, I think not.

Hence my post above? Liverpool anyone?

 

[bluestevon]

Yes it would, I was getting to that as the next stage of my argument against Usmanov having an agreement to acquire Everton

With the length and nature of their working relationship and the fact that Usmanov basically made Moshiri what vhe is in many ways, you honestly think they need a formal arrangement mate?

 

[peteblue]

With the length and nature of their working relationship and the fact that Usmanov basically made Moshiri what vhe is in many ways, you honestly think they need a formal arrangement mate?

Exactly......

 

[The Mighty Quint]

No-one forced Usmanov to purchase Moshiri's shares in R&W Holdings, what a ridiculous thing to say.

I was not saying Usmanov was forced, how did you read that is want I've said?

I'll tell you something though, Usmanov had 15% of nothing, he now has 30% of nothing, nothing being no control over Arsenal, nothing has changed, 15 or 30 is just numbers in the scheme of things.

So he did Moshiri a big favour for nothing?, he's still out in the cold at Arsenal, why do you think he has done that?

I know you said from day one Usmanov would never be part of Everton, but logic tells you that may not be the plan in all this.

 

[zirc]

Mid 20s

Well fat lads always look a bit older

 

[The Esk]

Other interested parties meant they had to act fast or risk losing out on a project they had spent 18 months alreayd on, common sense dictates you don't sell in a situation that everyone knows you have to sell in, thus makes sense that one takes the lead and the other plays the waiting game - holding the shares in Arsenal till the times right to offload them at the best price (after the new tv deal for example).

The talk about increased exposure is all well and good mate, but Usmanov has absolutely zero benefit from going from 15 to 30% share in Arsenal, no more influence, no more say, absolutely nothign gained for him by increasing his stake, exposure only matters if it comes with either influence or aids a long term strategy to gain control and a voice, neither of these applies to the Arsenal case as Kroenke simply will never sell

So question - why does increasing his exposure aid Usmanov in any way shape or form?

You also are looking at it too clinically IMO anyway, your removing all personal relationship from the two, they obviously enjoy working togetehr and dare i say have their set peckign order in that relationship, and maybe your putting too ,much onto Moshiri wanting to strike out and make his own way, has he EVER shown any inclination of wishing to do that? or is he actually seemingly anyway perfectly happy being part of a realtionship with a more powerful figure?

Will pose 1 scenario for you here mate, Moshiri as you have stated has a plan and is massively ambitious, he is also very very intelligent and astute

Do you think he will believe that without masive investment on the scale of Usmanov that it wuill be possible to actually compete with the likes of United, Chelsea, City etc spending power - regardless of new stadium, improved commercial deals etc, which frankly will only redice the gap to ten thousand miles rather than 100m thousand

All good points mate, but if there was a rush to buy Everton, why did Moshiri acquire his shares for a lower price than the Americans were offering?

On the point of being competitive and requiring more capital, (i) that's not established yet ( the need for Moshiri to bring in outsiders) and (ii) I've already hinted that he might like to do something without Usmanov (not withstanding that Usmanov has to sell his Arsenal holdings first if they were to do something which I don't believe they will).

I'm fully aware of the role of personal relationships in business but I'm also aware that two very close individuals can make separate investment decisions without ruining their relationships. I'd say Moshiri has already given clear evidence of his willingness to step out alone - that's exactly what he has done.

 

[Tramps_mate]

Just on the idea that Usmanov and Moshiri have hatched some plan to jointly acquire Everton, how exactly will that work? What agreements do you think are in place, and do you think those agreements should be recognised as for example, Moshiri's options agreements are?

Would a reasonable person expect for example, small shareholders to have the right to be aware of such an agreement?

Moshiri will take over and this time next year Usmanov will buy in..

Mosh bought in to us with Usmanovs money anyway... lol