Everton vs DC United

[RFUS]

Am I talking to you?

You were yesterday.

By the sound of it you're talking to everyone, because I don't see too many people agreeing with you.

It's fairly obvious you're not going to back down and you believe what you're saying, so this is just completely futile, and seeing this argument continue even today is annoying. I could put you on ignore to spare myself having to scroll past your posts, but then I like you and I think you usually make good posts, so I don't really want to do that.

So all I'm suggesting is that maybe 12 hours is long enough for this argument, and everyone should just move on.

 

[Ring master]

Longer highlights
[video=youtube;Ao9cAzR6Kng]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao9cAzR6Kng&feature=player_embedded#at=99[/video]

 

[BigDunc'sFod]

Nice. Shame about the quality of some of the highlights though!

Defence looked shaky to say the least. For all the rave reviews of Barkley I think we saw more in the "high" lights of McAleny the child I wouldn't have thought Coleman and Vellios had even played

 

[The Equaliser]

Nice goals, against a poor defence though. Jags not looking sharp at all yet, but it's still early days.

 

[kenada_blue]

He didn't, nowhere near to be honest. Arteta is massively underestimated. Potentially, most definitely. He's got the ability to be whatever he wants. If he played like he did yesterday then I'd have no problem seeing him take over the role.

I disagree, can't remember who against but it was when Heitinga scored, and Rodwell did exactly what Arteta had been doing all season, keeping the ball ticking in midfield from left to right and never pushing forward

He did that in a few games and fans got on his back for not getting forward, not driving.

Arteta to play centrally needs to create a partnership with a defensive midfielder that can sit, and also an attacking midfielder /support striker to link up to. Last season he kept things tidy, kept it ticking...never once ventured from deep into the box.

There is the problem for me. And Cahill isn't the answer for me as well never get through a defence centrally, well always hit it wide and hope for a good delivery

The minute teams stop baines next season, well be out of ideas unless something changes

Well see at the start of the season but its gonna be same old same old I can guess.

 

[EFCNIK]

I disagree, can't remember who against but it was when Heitinga scored, and Rodwell did exactly what Arteta had been doing all season, keeping the ball ticking in midfield from left to right and never pushing forward

He did that in a few games and fans got on his back for not getting forward, not driving.

Arteta to play centrally needs to create a partnership with a defensive midfielder that can sit, and also an attacking midfielder /support striker to link up to. Last season he kept things tidy, kept it ticking...never once ventured from deep into the box.

There is the problem for me. And Cahill isn't the answer for me.

Well see at the start of the season but its gonna be same old same old I can guess.

Brum.

 

[kenada_blue]

Brum.

And we drew didn't we? They parked the bus as did 80% of the teams we played against last season

 

[LTblue]

One thing people haven't picked up on is the fact that creatively Cahill was a great source of our moves in a deeper position last night, Cahill's on the ball ability is underrated, he had a great game in the centre.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

I disagree, can't remember who against but it was when Heitinga scored, and Rodwell did exactly what Arteta had been doing all season, keeping the ball ticking in midfield from left to right and never pushing forward

He did that in a few games and fans got on his back for not getting forward, not driving.

Arteta to play centrally needs to create a partnership with a defensive midfielder that can sit, and also an attacking midfielder /support striker to link up to. Last season he kept things tidy, kept it ticking...never once ventured from deep into the box.

There is the problem for me. And Cahill isn't the answer for me.

Well see at the start of the season but its gonna be same old same old I can guess.

Arteta doesn't just knock the ball from side to side, one of the worst myths ever to be honest. He has a varied range of passing, giving us control and composure but also switching the play and getting the ball into our forward players feet. There's no doubting he was under par last season, but even on a very average day he does things that none of our midfielders do. The amount of times he gets on the ball alone speaks for itself really, Rodwell or whoever replaces him in the centre would have to provide that outlet.

But the passing options of a centre midfielder are mainly dictated by the movement ahead of them. We don't use the width of the pitch and we have no one other than Beckford who looks to run in behind, so our options are a little bit limited really.

Also, I've seen you mention that we need a player like Luka Modric, where are all his goals and assists? He's basically the same player, to be honest. Deep lying playmakers who make there teams tick. Underestimated players really. They clock up lots of passes and knit things together for the respective sides. Arteta hardly has the movement of players like Bale, Van der Vaart and Lennon around him, either. It puts things into perspective really.

 

[kenada_blue]

Arteta doesn't just knock the ball from side to side, one of the worst myths ever to be honest. He has a varied range of passing, giving us control and composure but also switching the play and getting the ball into our forward players feet. There's no doubting he was under par last season, but even on a very average day he does things that none of our midfielders do. The amount of times he gets on the ball alone speaks for itself really, Rodwell or whoever replaces him in the centre would have to provide that outlet.

But the passing options of a centre midfielder are mainly dictated by the movement ahead of them. We don't use the width of the pitch and we have no one other than Beckford who looks to run in behind, so our options are a little bit limited really.

Also, I've seen you mention that we need a player like Luka Modric, where are all his goals and assists? He's basically the same player, to be honest. Deep lying playmakers who make there teams tick. Underestimated players really. They clock up lots of passes and knit things together for the respective sides. Arteta hardly has the movement of players like Bale, Van der Vaart and Lennon around him, either. It puts things into perspective really.

I don't think it is a myth, he never ventured forward last season an while he was actively looking to get the ball and make passes they were majority of the time switching from left to right. I'm sure the executioners bong can prove that stat.

I'm not debating that's all he can do, because it's not, but when you have a player like cahill being the link up his options are limited. And yes, modrics assists are low...but he does have a van der vaart in front of him to make the link work

Saying Rodwell did what Arteta did last season in a few games is not a slant on arteta, it's a fault that the way the team is set out it only does one thing...switch from left to right, what arteta and rodwell did fine at. Arteta can start moves from deep, but it's wasted when his options are limited to wide positions as your front two just want to get into the box or aren't skilled enough to link up

It's why when osman played off the striker and in more of a free role, we looked sharp and created chances, looked threatening

Personally feel, you take Cahill out and make your central midfield 3 of arteta, osman or rodwell and fellaini, you'd look more of a better unit than Cahill in that mix

That's my thoughts since last season

 

[ToxtethBlue]

I don't think it is a myth, he never ventured forward last season an while he was actively looking to get the ball and make passes they were majority of the time switching from left to right. I'm sure the executioners bong can prove that stat.

I'm not debating that's all he can do, because it's not, but when you have a player like cahill being the link up his options are limited. And yes, modrics assists are low...but he does have a van der vaart in front of him to make the link work

Saying Rodwell did what Arteta did last season in a few games is not a slant on arteta, it's a fault that the way the team is set out it only does one thing...switch from left to right, what arteta and rodwell did fine at. Arteta can start moves from deep, but it's wasted when his options are limited to wide positions as your front two just want to get into the box or aren't skilled enough to link up

It's why when osman played off the striker and in more of a free role, we looked sharp and created chances, looked threatening

Personally feel, you take Cahill out and make your central midfield 3 of arteta, osman or rodwell and fellaini, you'd look more of a better unit than Cahill in that mix

That's my thoughts since last season

Fair points, I think Rodwell would have to take the ball a bit more before he's at that level but he's certainly has the talent, no question about it. I was happy with his performance against Birmingham aswell, he was pinging the ball into Saha's feet from deep and constantly looking to get involved. Similar to yesterday really, and that's the level he needs to play at on a regular basis.

My favoured approach would be a little different to yours with Osman playing closer to Fellaini and Rodwell running on, but with the freedom to interchange positions. Either that, or Louis Saha behind Beckford, he looked excellent there last season. There are options there, you've just got to hope Moyes is willing to try things.

 

[Dixies60]

Really good work out and that's what it's about.

It's good to play teams who are ahead of us in fitness terms it will do the lads good.

The first 30 mins we played some nice stuff then you could see the lads started to struggle in the heat and conditions.

 

[billycopper]

I'd rather play Cahill behind the striker than in the middle of the park, personally. He can play there, don't get me wrong, but we've got better options available to us in the likes of Arteta, Osman, Rodwell and possibly even Barkley if he keeps himself fit. I think it'd be a bit of a waste with the amount of talent we have in that area. I don't consider Fellaini or Cahill mobile enough in possession to take on the role of ball player, either.

We could always pack the midfield with creativity and play with two attacking, overlapping fullbacks. Then I think we could fit Cahill into the side quite easily without worrying about lacking creativity.

GK: Howard

RB: Coleman
CB: Jagielka
CB: Distin/Heitinga
LB: Baines

RM: Barkley
DM: Fellaini
CM: Osman (Osman gets the nod at the moment, Rodwell has a chance if he starts believing in himself)
LM: Arteta (best CM at the club but we need him outwide at the moment)

SS: Cahill

CF: Saha

The side you've put down will be pretty much what I expect Moyes to go with. My concern is that we've got no movement up front. I'd like to see Beckford playing with Saha personally. The other thing is that I think we get crowded in the middle of the park with Cahill dropping in to help out and it makes it difficult for the man on the ball to find space and passing options.

 

[billycopper]

You were yesterday.

By the sound of it you're talking to everyone, because I don't see too many people agreeing with you.

It's fairly obvious you're not going to back down and you believe what you're saying, so this is just completely futile, and seeing this argument continue even today is annoying. I could put you on ignore to spare myself having to scroll past your posts, but then I like you and I think you usually make good posts, so I don't really want to do that.

So all I'm suggesting is that maybe 12 hours is long enough for this argument, and everyone should just move on.

Believe what you like, mate. Since you dropped out of it, we've actually had quite a constructive discussion.

 

[billycopper]

I disagree, can't remember who against but it was when Heitinga scored, and Rodwell did exactly what Arteta had been doing all season, keeping the ball ticking in midfield from left to right and never pushing forward

He did that in a few games and fans got on his back for not getting forward, not driving.

Arteta to play centrally needs to create a partnership with a defensive midfielder that can sit, and also an attacking midfielder /support striker to link up to. Last season he kept things tidy, kept it ticking...never once ventured from deep into the box.

There is the problem for me. And Cahill isn't the answer for me as well never get through a defence centrally, well always hit it wide and hope for a good delivery

The minute teams stop baines next season, well be out of ideas unless something changes

Well see at the start of the season but its gonna be same old same old I can guess.

I think Arteta works on the left, so that's hopefully one role filled. When Rodwell and Fellaini played together I think the only goals we conceded were a penalty and an own goal, so that combination has definitely got some potential. I'd like to see a bit more attacking intent from them though. We then need to decide if we're playing 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1. I agree that Osman has been worth a place but I personally wouldn't play him in the hole. If we're going to use that system, Cahill is the man for the job. Barkley looks promising on the right, but we couldn't consistently pick him ahead of Osman or Cahill. If we do use Barkley or Gueye down the right hand side, will we be leaving ourselves exposed by having Coleman at right back? Can we find a place for Bily?

My concern with the shape of our midfield during the friendlies is that it looks like everyone has a license to roam. Bily and Gueye switch wings at will and Arteta and Osman pop up in central midfield or on the wing when it suits them. I don't think we're good enough to play with that sort of fluidity. The defenders need to know who the man in front of them is supposed to be. We'll end up like a schoolboy side chasing after the ball otherwise.