Everton in crisis? - Daily Mail Article

[chicoazul]

but it wouldn't, it would be on the basis of loan to the club with benefits to supporters. the club gets money for improvements,at low interest rates plus discounts to STs, and adds value to the club. im sure its been done before.

Fair enough mate.

 

[Goat]

Your all forgetting 1 vital point.

Season Ticket are already being used to pay off a huge loan we got, so forget them for the next 20+ years.

And of course :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jul/10/everton.premierleague

While David Moyes demands assurances that his club have the means to match his ambition, Everton have added two more mortgages to their balance sheet. The loans, both struck with the boutique Edinburgh bank Adam & Company, are in addition to money borrowed from Barclays last year against future television income.

The first Adam & Co loan was drawn last October and the second last month, meaning that Everton now have a total of 12 outstanding loans against their property and assets. Most significant among them is a £30m loan from the Prudential which will cost £68m to repay over a 25-year term and "will be repaid in a securitisation agreement serviced by future season-ticket sales and match-day ticket sales".

Having broken the club's transfer record in each of the past two summers with the purchases of Andy Johnson and Yakubu Ayegbeni, it is unclear how often Everton will be able to repeat that feat having mortgaged future revenues.

Meanwhile, the club are shrugging off the latest move by a group campaigning against the proposed move to out-of-town Kirkby. The Keep Everton in our City campaign believes it will soon be in a position to force the board to hold an EGM over its concerns about the additional £78m in borrowings that the club must find for the relocation. But Everton say that the group will not secure the support of the required 20% of shareholders to call the EGM.

 

[Neiler]

at least when villa sell players they re-invest the money in the squad when was the last time we did that?

1 Lescott < Billy, Hetinga, Distin, Neill (on laon) Senderos (on loan) Jo (on Loan) Donovon (on loan).

 

[sirblue57]

Your all forgetting 1 vital point.

Season Ticket are already being used to pay off a huge loan we got, so forget them for the next 20+ years.

<scene open, BK holds cape across face and cackles>" damn you pesky kids"

 

[bainesontoast]

They don't call it the "Daily Fail" for no reason. I'm not even bothering to click the link.

 

[Neiler]

I mean this season in this order > they got relegated , we finished 7th , they've signed Kevin Nolan and give him a massive contract and other players I think Matt Taylor from Bolton , plus they have just bid 7 million for Shayne long , whilst meanwhile back at the ranch we've done nothing as per , just doesn't add up to me , obviously iam missing something ( regardless weather them players are good enough ) it's that they've spent money trying to improve what baffles me

Missing a hell of a lot to be fair mate,

Seriously its very simple look at the players they have shed, really people should do their research before bigging up WHU as a quality player eating machine and throwing around billions:

Hitzleperger
Ba
Keane
Upson
Obinna
McCarthy
Ben Haim
Bridge
Dyer
Spector
Beharmi
Diamanti
Da Costa.
Jacobson
Gabbidon
Kovac


Likely also to leave:

Green
Parker
Piquionne.

FFS do people really think WHU are in abetter financial situation the us - beggers beleif.

 

[Neiler]

And, if we are honest, most members here on all sides of the argument would have welcomed him with open arms versus a broke BK and an unwilling Earl.

Not here like!

 

[kenada_blue]

IF they get back up mate. Didn't work for Sheffield Wednesday, Forest and so many others though mate.

Remember 94 & 98. Staying up at all costs is best mate.

Late reply from me lid...

Making it clear, I wasnt comparing West Ham to us at all. BUT on the back of saying they're in the ****, they have more of a chance of getting back up than previous teams as they havent had a panic fire-sale. They also look like they can cope in some capacity in paying Prem wages in the Championship. But on a business level...they were left in a terrible state when those Icelandic's left - £100million+ debt. Staying in the premiership and scrapping relegation every season costs money on the top of debt Gold and Sullivan were left to manage. While staying in the prem has its benefits...dropping a division, getting money on that, cutting costs, then getting a balloon payment to rebuild seems better financially than staying in the premiership for a team in West Ham's predicament. Then they have the new stadium.

Possibly mate, its a divergeing route, not to bang on about other clubs but just to illustrate the point - you can either keep your best players or sell them pocket the fee and wages and reinvest - as we have seen with the Darren Bents, Andy Carrols, Downings and Youngs. The choice in the PL is to either stick or swival to be honest, that choice is open to debate, should we have sold the Baines, Arteta's, Jags etc - or given them contracts to keep them? Personaly i am happier they satyed. Was the right decison for me. I take your point though the club can always be run better - for instance im not sure i would have given Saha a two year contract on 60k - but that decisons for you.

Transfer fees are pretty much irrelvent in my opinion mate, the serious money in the PL is in fact wages. That said i beleive we are talking in definites and your working of the basis that we will sign nobody and im commenting on the basis that their will be at least a couple of first team addition before the end of the window.

Problem with that though is contracts dont mean anything apart from a big transfer fee. If a player wants to go, he's gone. Jags signing a deal last year means nothing if he goes to Arsenal.

You always want to keep your best players. But when you're not showing ambition or taking step forwards, the player loses focus and becomes disheartened - eg Nasri. So when a "big" comes in, offers more than you can...the player wants off...eg Modric.

End of the day, contracts only boost a transfer fee nowdays. If youre not showing intent, they're gonna go.

But that gets away from my other point of...where's the money on the back of success?

 

[Neiler]

That's interesting. (I'd seen PSL (Personal Seat Licence) from the States and it was controversial, to say the least, but this is different.) The worry, I would think, is that you are effectively mortgaging some of your season ticket revenue but if you can use the money to get improvements above and beyond (e.g. build more revenue-enhancing features) then I could see it working.

I also think they could do far more with the idea of 'enhanced membership' for non-local fans where you could pay a yearly fee (maybe at different levels) and you would receive stuff that wouldn't cost them the earth (choice of match ticket, even ticket+hotel package, annual Finch Farm visit (see idea of fan days at American football training camps), plus signed shirt, signed derby programme, regular deals on merchandise, etc.) but which would mean something to the buyer.

Season tickets or rather the revenue is mortgaed against the prudential deal mate.

 

[billycopper]

Loads in debt and take out Messi and we'd beat them over two legs mate, apparently.

Fact. FFS

 

[Neiler]

Late reply from me lid...

Making it clear, I wasnt comparing West Ham to us at all. BUT on the back of saying they're in the ****, they have more of a chance of getting back up than previous teams as they havent had a panic fire-sale. They also look like they can cope in some capacity in paying Prem wages in the Championship. But on a business level...they were left in a terrible state when those Icelandic's left - £100million+ debt. Staying in the premiership and scrapping relegation every season costs money on the top of debt Gold and Sullivan were left to manage. While staying in the prem has its benefits...dropping a division, getting money on that, cutting costs, then getting a balloon payment to rebuild seems better financially than staying in the premiership for a team in West Ham's predicament. Then they have the new stadium.



Problem with that though is contracts dont mean anything apart from a big transfer fee. If a player wants to go, he's gone. Jags signing a deal last year means nothing if he goes to Arsenal.

You always want to keep your best players. But when you're not showing ambition or taking step forwards, the player loses focus and becomes disheartened - eg Nasri. So when a "big" comes in, offers more than you can...the player wants off...eg Modric.

End of the day, contracts only boost a transfer fee nowdays. If youre not showing intent, they're gonna go.

But that gets away from my other point of...where's the money on the back of success?

I cant make it any clearer for you mate, i think you look need to look at the account, if you think moneyis being symponed of somewhere it isnt - the money goes on paying the players, i donthow it can be any clearer, its reinvested back into the squad on theback of their success. Have you looked at the books mate, where the discepencey?

If thats the case mate, 17 clubs (possibly more) will all be looseing their best players as their are only three trophies domesticly that can be one. Those three teams wont buy every player in the league. Lets be honest money talks money talks when it comes to players and ambition is second - i dont llike to generalise - but in the main. So that the colundrum you pay to keep your best players, but its up all your liquidity, at the same time to you know you have resale value if they are on a longer contract, thats not symptomatic of Everton or how we are managed, but every club in the world - Ronaldo/Fabergas blah blah blah - its part of the game really

 

[chicoazul]

This money getting siphoned off business does my head in. We have OOCs similar to clubs of our stature in the league.

There is enough to hang the current board with, without having to result to that. It just makes us look paranoid.

 

[Xavi]

Missing a hell of a lot to be fair mate,

Seriously its very simple look at the players they have shed, really people should do their research before bigging up WHU as a quality player eating machine and throwing around billions:

Hitzleperger
Ba
Keane
Upson
Obinna
McCarthy
Ben Haim
Bridge
Dyer
Spector
Beharmi
Diamanti
Da Costa.
Jacobson
Gabbidon
Kovac


Likely also to leave:

Green
Parker
Piquionne.

FFS do people really think WHU are in abetter financial situation the us - beggers beleif.

What your seriously over looking there mate is how many on that list did they sign on loan last season or pay a transfer fee for in January like Demba Ba , this is when as usual they out spent us last season with the players you listed above ^ and as I said they've out spent us this season again trying to sign players for 7 million , yes they've released a load of players now ,some like Upson's contract ran out , that can't be helped as we know too well with Pienarr but most of the above if not all they have signed and in that time scale we haven't signed anyone which is embarrassing

 

[davek]

Your all forgetting 1 vital point.

Season Ticket are already being used to pay off a huge loan we got, so forget them for the next 20+ years.

Season tickets or rather the revenue is mortgaed against the prudential deal mate.

Yes, but the securitization deal with Bears Stearns (passed onto the Prudential) was on the basis of a club with 'predictable and sustainable cashflows' from attendance. They dont own the club's future revenue from that stream, they just have their loan anchored to it.

Obviously the Pru would need to give the go ahead for any new venture on ESR, as they have a vested interest (as we saw with the annexe, apparently).

 

[fozzy]

I gauentee they wont - this is a fun game isnt it. I guess we will know when Villa sppend the 37mill.

Newcastle
Sunderland
Balckburn

etc etc etc!

yeah cuz its not like villa to go and sign a £20m striker now is it!!!