Everton and VAR

[Jacko93]

It'll be of minor consolation at the season's end when Liverpool are feted by the media for their first title win in 30 years, but I'm convinced most people are seeing this season as a departure from football where talent decides a title to one where faceless bureaucrats decide it. It's not as clear cut as a bribed title win as with Juventus, but it's not far off.

It's quite simple: if we have games judged by officials at a ground as we've always had, Liverpool are maybe a point ahead of City, or maybe not even ahead. VAR's impact has been to put 10 points or more in Liverpool's hands.

It's not science, it's technology + interpretation. And that lends itself to bias much more than any referee making decisions where everyone knows who he is and what his associations are and past record in refereeing games. Put simply: the football industry concerned with "the product" can decide exactly who it would be beneficial for them to see lifting the game's major trophies from season to season.

And the only people able to truly question it are the media, who are complicit.

 

[davek]

And the only people able to truly question it are the media, who are complicit.

One hand washes the other: VAR writes their stories for them.

But it's clear to me that there's complicity throughout the game to turn a blind eye to VAR and it's inconsistencies and the questionable motivations of certain decisions these panels make. Apart from Guardiola who's grumbled once or twice, the managers are certainly drinking the kool aid on VAR. Time after time they back it. It stinks.

The panels are not scrutinised either. That is a massive bone of contention. We need - as we do with the stadium officials at games - to know the identity of these panelists. They hide behind their screens and are anonymous, and there's no way of knowing who is making what decision. I'm not sure if the Video Assistant Refereee is named, but the others are anonymous. That's clearly not satisfactory.

VAR official identity; VARs changes in emphasis on certain infringements like handball from month to month; VAR's all round lack of scientific rigour - it's a system that's been accepted into the game with major flaws. It wont 'get ironed out' either. They aren't problems that tweaking will eliminate.

Trust in the rules being fairly applied is fundamental to watching sport. VAR doesn't observe those fundamentals.

 

[mrb85]

The way VAR is still used for offside calls when now everyone is openly told that there is a spurious accuracy in how it is applied is unbelievable. Decisions being given on the basis of millimetres when the line is not technically and precisely inserted but actually fixed in position by the VAR official or assistant. To go through the whole season without allowing for the degree of error involved is crazy. Like with goalline technology, the use of VAR for offsides should only have been introduced when made foolproof.

 

[arch stanton]

The way VAR is still used for offside calls when now everyone is openly told that there is a spurious accuracy in how it is applied is unbelievable. Decisions being given on the basis of millimetres when the line is not technically and precisely inserted but actually fixed in position by the VAR official or assistant. To go through the whole season without allowing for the degree of error involved is crazy. Like with goalline technology, the use of VAR for offsides should only have been introduced when made foolproof.

and it never will be

 

[arch stanton]

There's a world of difference between technology and science. The two are being conflated here to lend some sort of infallibility to VAR.

There is no way this would stand up to rigorous scientific testing standards. There is no basis for this measurement because there aren't two definite points that are being measured: the point where the foot strikes the ball to put the pass into motion and the point where the player meant to receive it is standing when that happens.

It's arbitrary and therefore BS from a scientific perspective.

The whole of VAR is fundamentally subjective: from the way the laws on what's to be seen as infringement change from month to month, to what constitutes contact, to how offsides are measured.

It's a BS system that's been deployed by the industry to determine game outcomes and trophy winners.

It's as corrupt as sport gets. If we gave all players EPO and let them play football it'd be less corrupt than VAR.

Blob on my friend. Even high quality TV pictures aren't a series of digital photographs, the GOP structure of the frame sequence can be a couple of seconds between reference frames (I frames or 'photograph' frames) all the ones in between have large element of computer generated positioning of moving objects (Predictive and bi-predictive frames) that make for lovely high qual moving pictures with relatively low data usage but when freeze framed and wanting to accurately position one of the moving objects (ie a player or his foot etc) you are relying on the predictive element of the software. It certainly does not support cm level measurements at a distance of 40-50m. When you add in no corrections for any lens distortions (barrel distortion) or straightforward parallax issues and there is no way on earth that potential decisions that could have millions of pounds worth of implications should be done in a minute or two, never mind seconds.

 

[davek]

Blob on my friend. Even high quality TV pictures aren't a series of digital photographs, the GOP structure of the frame sequence can be a couple of seconds between reference frames (I frames or 'photograph' frames) all the ones in between have large element of computer generated positioning of moving objects (Predictive and bi-predictive frames) that make for lovely high qual moving pictures with relatively low data usage but when freeze framed and wanting to accurately position one of the moving objects (ie a player or his foot etc) you are relying on the predictive element of the software. It certainly does not support cm level measurements at a distance of 40-50m. When you add in no corrections for any lens distortions (barrel distortion) or straightforward parallax issues and there is no way on earth that potential decisions that could have millions of pounds worth of implications should be done in a minute or two, never mind seconds.

In English?

 

[arch stanton]

there's lots of electrickery going in in the background on TV (any CCTV/DVR) recordings that gives an educated guess as to where moving objects actually are. Great for moving footage and keeping the data that is transmitted in manageable amounts, but not good for freeze frames. It is flawed, so is the linesman, just that one pretends to be accurate more than it is.

 

[stamullenblue]

Same as refs. Yesterday we won one and lost one both called by the ref and linesman and both overturned so ended up even if truth be told .. Ruining the game and needs to be scrapped or just brought back to the ref gets a second look and no outside interference .. to many decisions are hard to call anyway

 

[DOMNOLAN]

In English?

Pictures are bad basically.

 

[davek]

Pictures are bad basically.

I know mate. @arch stanton provides the technical basis for the compelling view that we're in the area of alchemy more than we're in the area of verifiable science.

 

[Toast]

Must have been the quickest ever review for a penno tonight when Virgil bundled over DCL in the box.

Should have been a red card and a penno.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Must have been the quickest ever review for a penno tonight when Virgil bundled over DCL in the box.

Should have been a red card and a penno.

Haha they didn't even check it mate we all know that

 

[Philw]

Must have been the quickest ever review for a penno tonight when Virgil bundled over DCL in the box.

Should have been a red card and a penno.

This, except it can't be both due to the double (triple?) jeapordy rule.

 

[Deulofeumygod]

Someone please post a vid. It’s not mentioned ANYWHERE which sums it all up.

 

[summerisle]

Someone please post a vid. It’s not mentioned ANYWHERE which sums it all up.