Everton and Martinez are to blame should Lukaku leave

[BLUEBERT]

No thanks, really not Jose.

Proven winner, raise the clubs standing just by being here, attract top players, etc ,etc!!!

 

[davek]

You do know we lost one semi final, you can't use a lost semi final as a barometer of success you absolute loon

No, you cant use it as a case for a dismissal either.

He gave us our best PL season and has us at Wembley with a good shot of a cup win for the first time in 21 years.

Anyone who believes he should go after three seasons for that and registering a couple of midtable seasons need to give their heads a wobble and then read a history book on the club.

 

[JAYTALITY]

So, if im following correctly:

1-- Because other teams have improved in league placing we should have done too?

2-- Because the media say we should be aiming for top 4 we should be top 4 and now pushing higher?


i'm sure ive misunderstood.

Mate we need to get you in a couching staff role, Martinez's right hand man even. Your an inspiration. I could imagine you at half time in the dressing room.

 

[nsno-chris]

No, you cant use it as a case for a dismissal either.

He gave us our best PL season and has us at Wembley with a good shot of a cup win for the first time in 21 years.

Anyone who believes he should go after three seasons for that and registering a couple of midtable seasons need to give their heads a wobble and then read a history book on the club.

I'm not using it has a case dismissal, would you like to show me where I am?? Thought not.

4 home wins all season, 21 wins in 67 is it?? I think that's a case for dismissal. Quite disgusting really, but I'm glad you don't have quite as high standards as me and seem happy to follow a "bottom half team" playing pretty cap football.

The rest of us aren't, but if 4 wins at home all season is acceptable for you then good on you, don't tell the rest of us we are wrong. Maybe you'd be better starting a "positive martinez" thread and you can boast about his 4 home wins in there

 

[mkrudden]

Firstly, the idea that a 5 year contract equates to a 5 year deadline to achieve something is somewhat strange. If I gave someone a 5 year contract, yes I'd expect development time, but 3 years in I'd expect real progress to meeting obhectives. As discussed ad nauseum there is no progress only regression.

Also in an industry where the average tenure is 13 or 14 months, I'd say someone about to complete their third year has had a very fair cracking of the whip.

This is not a knee jerk reaction to a short term blip, it's an appropriate response to a failing project.

Whilst I agree the norm is short tenures, the total rebuilding job that Martinez and Bill signed up is more than a three year plan, surely? There is no way it's anything less than a 5 year plan. If I was given 5 years to have a final version ready, judging me on a select few parameters after 2 2/3 seems unfair, but that might be me.

In any event...

I totally understand that the main indicator of a sides ability to win games is the league table but surely you concede that the previous financial model would mean slow progress?

Buy young/inexperienced, raw players, develop them, selling them, reinvesting. We've seen its taken 3 years to develop Rom, just one player. It's a very slow progression when you've no money or are using sales to generate money

And its been a point of many debate, agreeing to disagree is obviously fine, but I cant understand how progression cannot be seen.

Barkley?
Stones?
Lukaku?
Deulofeu?
Funes Mori?

All visibly progessing as the season(s) have progressed.

2 cup semi finals? When was the last time we did that? Surely that's progression?

The big test for RM is this summer. We've now just a few spots left to fill and bolster - GK, CB, CF. He has to get them playing consistently and the pressure increases because of the new financial model. What hasn't been said is that the new financial model allows him to bring in experienced, proven winners who can chaperone these younger, inexperienced players on the pitch.

I love Jags, Baines, Coleman... But they've won nothing. We need players who have won titles, and we'll finally be able to bring those players in this summer.

If he brings those players in this summer and by Christmas he's floundering then get shut. Until then, for me and others, he deserves a chance to continue the progression albeit on a shorter leash.

 

[davek]

I'm not using it has a case dismissal, would you like to show me where I am?? Thought not.

4 home wins all season, 21 wins in 67 is it?? I think that's a case for dismissal. Quite disgusting really, but I'm glad you don't have quite as high standards as me and seem happy to follow a "bottom half team" playing pretty cap football.

The rest of us aren't, but if 4 wins at home all season is acceptable for you then good on you, don't tell the rest of us we are wrong. Maybe you'd be better starting a "positive martinez" thread and you can boast about his 4 home wins in there

I take the season as a whole: home form in the PL; away form in the PL and the two other competitions we compete in.

If you can weigh all that up and tell me it's a case for dismissal then by that criteria you would't have had a manager at Everton survive a couple of seasons at the club going back decades.

As said, Martinez is being judged by a different standard to past Everton managers. I see that hypocrisy and lay it bare. No apologies for doing so either.

 

[Zatara]

Should we extend the same loyalties to failing players as you are suggesting to failing managers?

Or should we reward Lukaku for his comments?

Swings and roundabouts...

 

[JAYTALITY]

No, you cant use it as a case for a dismissal either.

He gave us our best PL season and has us at Wembley with a good shot of a cup win for the first time in 21 years.

Anyone who believes he should go after three seasons for that and registering a couple of midtable seasons need to give their heads a wobble and then read a history book on the club.

Pffft, 'has us at Wembley', they introduced having the semis at Wembo recently so the small clubs could feel special and make semis bigger looking occasions than they actually are.

I see you have falling for the gimmick hook line and sinker.

You argue like a child about Everton:

'ye but we got to Wembo this year! How many other teams can say that! Other than Watford, Liverpool, CITY, Palace, West ham/united. It's an achievement lad. 5th or 15th who cares? WEM BOLEEEEEE WEM BOLEEEEEE!! '

 

[Zatara]

Whilst I agree the norm is short tenures, the total rebuilding job that Martinez and Bill signed up is more than a three year plan, surely? There is no way it's anything less than a 5 year plan. If I was given 5 years to have a final version ready, judging me on a select few parameters after 2 2/3 seems unfair, but that might be me.

In any event...

I totally understand that the main indicator of a sides ability to win games is the league table but surely you concede that the previous financial model would mean slow progress?

Buy young/inexperienced, raw players, develop them, selling them, reinvesting. We've seen its taken 3 years to develop Rom, just one player. It's a very slow progression when you've no money or are using sales to generate money

And its been a point of many debate, agreeing to disagree is obviously fine, but I cant understand how progression cannot be seen.

Barkley?
Stones?
Lukaku?
Deulofeu?
Funes Mori?

All visibly progessing as the season(s) have progressed.

2 cup semi finals? When was the last time we did that? Surely that's progression?

The big test for RM is this summer. We've now just a few spots left to fill and bolster - GK, CB, CF. He has to get them playing consistently and the pressure increases because of the new financial model. What hasn't been said is that the new financial model allows him to bring in experienced, proven winners who can chaperone these younger, inexperienced players on the pitch.

I love Jags, Baines, Coleman... But they've won nothing. We need players who have won titles, and we'll finally be able to bring those players in this summer.

If he brings those players in this summer and by Christmas he's floundering then get shut. Until then, for me and others, he deserves a chance to continue the progression albeit on a shorter leash.

Exactly.

Posters want lukaku to be given a new contracr as he can do no wrong yet wont give Martinez the summer to rebuild and until xmas in the league....

All very bizarre....2 semi finals and mid table.....apparently thats unheard of.

 

[nsno-chris]

I take the season as a whole: home form in the PL; away form in the PL and the two other competitions we compete in

He's judged against his peers and the record is awful. We've beaten 3 relegation candidates and 1 poor Chelsea side.....wowzer

 

[nsno-chris]

Exactly.

Posters want lukaku to be given a new contracr as he can do no wrong yet wont give Martinez the summer to rebuild and until xmas in the league....

All very bizarre....2 semi finals and mid table.....apparently thats unheard of.

How is a lost semi final something to shout home about??? Can someone please explain how this is classed as something to be proud of??? We lost ffs, we are in the same position as the teams that lost in 1st and 2nd round.....Potless

He's invested in the team and we've regressed, he hasn't identified mistakes that have been ongoing for 2 years and we've regressed, he's making the same mistakes for 2 years and we've regressed....We've regressed, we've regressed. It's why we are 12th with a piss poor win ratio a piss poor home record and the majority of teams see goodison as an absolute goldmine for 3 points

 

[riddick]

I don't get the whole 'I take it as a whole'. If Im counting this right, he has 9 wins total in the league this season. 5 away, 4 home. Against the mighty Southampton, Newcastle, West Brom, Stoke and Villa. Where is this idea that we are a dominating away team coming from?

 

[willo30]

Whilst I agree the norm is short tenures, the total rebuilding job that Martinez and Bill signed up is more than a three year plan, surely? There is no way it's anything less than a 5 year plan. If I was given 5 years to have a final version ready, judging me on a select few parameters after 2 2/3 seems unfair, but that might be me.

In any event...

I totally understand that the main indicator of a sides ability to win games is the league table but surely you concede that the previous financial model would mean slow progress?

Buy young/inexperienced, raw players, develop them, selling them, reinvesting. We've seen its taken 3 years to develop Rom, just one player. It's a very slow progression when you've no money or are using sales to generate money

And its been a point of many debate, agreeing to disagree is obviously fine, but I cant understand how progression cannot be seen.

Barkley?
Stones?
Lukaku?
Deulofeu?
Funes Mori?

All visibly progessing as the season(s) have progressed.

2 cup semi finals? When was the last time we did that? Surely that's progression?

The big test for RM is this summer. We've now just a few spots left to fill and bolster - GK, CB, CF. He has to get them playing consistently and the pressure increases because of the new financial model. What hasn't been said is that the new financial model allows him to bring in experienced, proven winners who can chaperone these younger, inexperienced players on the pitch.

I love Jags, Baines, Coleman... But they've won nothing. We need players who have won titles, and we'll finally be able to bring those players in this summer.

If he brings those players in this summer and by Christmas he's floundering then get shut. Until then, for me and others, he deserves a chance to continue the progression albeit on a shorter leash.

It wasn't a 5 yr deal it was 4 where he promised CL football. That leaves next season. Can you see it happening? Have we seen enough improvement to feel it's going to happen? Not for me. We are further off now than when he took over. God knows where we will be if he stays the whole 5 years at this rate.

 

[ftk43]

if Martinez can't get the points needed while having one of the best strikers in the league then what will happen if we let him go?

I can only hope that if Rom leaves then that's it for Bobby too. Nearly every great result that happened since RM came here was down to Rom carrying us.

There's no way we can find a like-for-like replacement for Rom right away so i'd rather not take our chances with having RM for another season without Lukaku.

So, yeah, if Rom leaves then Roberto is to blame. And also to fire.

 

[maccavennie]

It wasn't a 5 yr deal it was 4 where he promised CL football. That leaves next season. Can you see it happening? Have we seen enough improvement to feel it's going to happen? Not for me. We are further off now than when he took over. God knows where we will be if he stays the whole 5 years at this rate.

Spot on and it certainly wasn't a rebuilding job that was needed, Martinez even acknowledged that when he came in.

Regardless of Moyes faults he left a bloody decent team that needed some adjustments and a couple of top players brought in which should have ( and did see us ) challenge for the CL slots 1st season.

We are regressing, slowly but surely and the buck stops with the manager.

Folk saying he's only 3 years into a 5 year plan as if he took over a relegation team surely can realise that he's stripped away everything that was good about the team in return for being more adventurous which is great when it goes well, but it isn't going well enough to say it's successful.

I'm pretty calm in the fact I firmly believe that this will be his final season with us anyway and a new man will be given the reigns come the summer. So for those that would like him removed, I don't think any of us will be waiting too much longer.