Everton and Martinez are to blame should Lukaku leave

[oldblue]

Maybe the squad isn't champions league quality as everyone keeps suggesting. Maybe we're all guilty of believing Martinez's hype about the players, and it's backfired on Martinez. Compare our squad to anyone in the top four, aside from Leicester, I don't think we're better than anyone. Is our squad better that Chelsea, MU or Liverpool? Probably not/equivalent.

The thing that's set Everton apart in the past is the management and managing to get the most out of limited players. The difference now is that Martinez has somehow turned us into a team that can score goals for fun against anyone however this only papers over the cracks of a poor defence. Even if we found some kind of balance in defence I don't think we'd still have the attacking intent to frighten teams as we do at the moment.

In an ideal world for me we'd play like Atletico Madrid and build a solid base from the back with a handful of hardworking flair players that can provide the spark but I don't think Ross, Rom, Del or anyone are willing to work or press that hard off the ball. That's the reason we're failing IMO. We need new management and to be honest I wouldn't mind restructuring the team as well since their lack of effort and attitude is part of the reason I'm so fed up of Everton this season.

Really good post. But that ideal world scenario of hard working flair players is going to be a tough one to crack for any team. I think we've got to have players coming through who aren't afraid of the ball and want to work to create space. We are dealing with the first issue and it was long overdue. The second I've not seen enough evidence of yet but who knows.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Even if we did qualify for.champions league he would still find reason to go these players have no loyalties

With CL football and a wage packet to match, what would be his driver for a move if he was happy here?

 

[raithrovers94]

I agree that would meet his criteria but it's all the hangers on that make money of him when he moves for millions

 

[oldblue]

A stepping stone to a club in the CL, which obviously brings a wage packet to match

It was always a tall order to think we could achieve that this season, but the fact that we're miles always from even being in contention will have cemented his thinking.

The money side of will no longer be an issue, so we could meet his 'ambition' there I'm sure, but on the pitch we haven't even got close.

He's going to be impossible to replace. He's the first 25 goal a season man we've had since Lineker

Don't believe for a minute his agent would believe we were ever going to match his projection for what he could be getting. There's an outside chance Rom loves being here enough to give it a couple more seasons before asking to leave but it's not looking too likely to me. I just don't think league position mattered. His profile would hardly have been higher and even a fourth place position would just have meant more clubs buzzing round him.
It's not even just about what he does. He looks the part. You couldn't have a better poster boy for a rich club. And while I was convinced he wasn't the finished article a few months ago it's looking like I was wrong.
We do need to replace his goals but we played better as a team without Lineker. It often forces players to step up more.

 

[BrightonToffee]

first time poster: flame off

You know, I get it. I really do. I'm fifty years old and have followed Everton all my life. And still, after all this time I cannot be talked to for the first thirty minutes after we lose a game. Especially when it feels like we just weren't trying. If we're outplayed, outgunned and out manoeuvred then I can live with it. But, truthfully, those kind of games are few and far between. These days, when we lose, it's because the team just did not gel. Basics get missed and the Manager just does not seem to have a plan B. So (to get back on topic) when I hear players and their agents talking bullshit about wanting to be somewhere else, I just think [Poor language removed] Them. If they don't want to play for us, [Poor language removed] jog on. And that goes for Lukaku, Stones, Mirallas and anyone else who thinks they are too good for the shirt. Everton is a family, a marriage. And it's for the long haul, or not at all. Lukaku is a great player. One of the most consistent strikers I've had the privilege of seeing play for us. But if he does not want to be here then thanks for the memories and see you later.

 

[raithrovers94]

Really annoys me when you get these players saying how much they love the club then there off first chance ,don't patronise us

 

[Sentinel]

We've had one and he's delivered.

It's easy to deliver, when you set your forward up as the fulcrum of the team. He's a gifted striker, potentially world class, but the tactics Martinez has employed will always give a forward a platform to perform.

Sure he'll be a loss, it will be interesting to see if he is so easily accommodated at his next club. If he is genuinely world class it won't make a difference.

There's other options out there, seem to remember after Lineker left we won the league. And Latchford came and went without winning any silverware. It's not all doom and gloom, a decent manager will adapt to these situations.

Lukaku always saw us as a stepping stone, Stones maybe too. Rooney left us and he was one of us. I think this is more a situation of player power more than another stick to beat Martinez or the club with.

 

[oldblue]

Really annoys me when you get these players saying how much they love the club then there off first chance ,don't patronise us

He might do though. Doesn't come across as a snidey guy. But when he arrived at Chelsea there will have already been a little cottage industry around him who need their cut now. He's not just good, he walks and talks like a superstar. And that'll mean too much cash to too many people he'll have to think about. His game may even suffer for leaving us and it's a sorry state of football that this won't be his only consideration by some way.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

It's easy to deliver, when you set your forward up as the fulcrum of the team. He's a gifted striker, potentially world class, but the tactics Martinez has employed will always give a forward a platform to perform.

Sure he'll be a loss, it will be interesting to see if he is so easily accommodated at his next club. If he is genuinely world class it won't make a difference.

There's other options out there, seem to remember after Lineker left we won the league. And Latchford came and went without winning any silverware. It's not all doom and gloom, a decent manager will adapt to these situations.

Lukaku always saw us as a stepping stone, Stones maybe too. Rooney left us and he was one of us. I think this is more a situation of player power more than another stick to beat Martinez or the club with.

Intimating he's had it 'easy' because we play with one striker and he's the focal point is nonsense mate sorry.

He's made many of his goals out of virtually nothing, with his pace and power. The lad is top drawer and he'll be a massive miss.

What concerns many of us is where we'd be without such a potent striker. Our goals for column will reduce next season - without doubt imo, and if we continue to be as defensively soft (throughout the team) as we have been for the last 2 years under brown shoes, then the concern is only natural.

If the lad wants to go, he goes, we'll move on, but the issue is where it'll leave us with this manager at the helm.

 

[Librarian]

It's a negotiation

 

[Sentinel]

Intimating he's had it 'easy' because we play with one striker and he's the focal point is nonsense mate sorry.

Hold on there. I never said he had it easy, he's an exceptional talent for his age. But you have to admit that for a forward it's easier to play in a system which is attacking rather than stifling or more balanced.

I understand the concern at his loss but sometimes it's better to build around a team than individuals.

 

[dead_soft]

That's a long article to say nothing at all.
Is it disrespectful of Lukaku and his father or can't you blame him - both are suggested.
Was Martinez supposed to use money he hadn't been given yet to get Everton higher in the table?

 

[dandydan]

The Two Bob Carling Cup I can agree with. The FA Cup is the prestige.

20 years ago.

 

[The Esk]

Dave's latest rebuttal asked two questions which he believed I have failed to address. For ease I have quoted his questions and my previous responses

there is no addressing of the issue about the higher threshold faced by this current manager via-a-vis past Everton managers with much worse records than Martinez.

1)Martinez is being judged on the following criteria (i) he inherited in his own words "a great platform" from which to progress - we haven't progressed we've moved backwards in absolute and relative terms (ii) he's added well to the squad (just to show balance, as I say he has some skills) so the squad has improved but sadly results have not and there's no evidence in the PL of any change to this trend; (iii) the PL landscape has changed, the glass ceiling that existed predominantly in Moyes' days no longer exists due to a combination of increased investment in a wider number of clubs, the decline of previous incumbents in Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool and this season Manchester City, and the tactical astuteness and man management skills of managers such as Ranieri, Pochettino and Bilic. The glaring omission in contenders is our very own Everton.

There is no addressing of the issue of why the squad should be CL spot challengers if you yourself also contend they wouldn't be CL spot challengers under another manager either;

2) As I've stated on many occasions our current squad is strong enough to compete in the current race for CL positions, that's almost universally acknowledged across the football community - I do not differ from that point of view at all. However I also realise that we must invest further and restructure the squad to increase our competitiveness particularly (i) if we wish to move from a top 4 challenger to a title challenger, and from a CL qualifier to a CL knock-out stage contender, and (ii) in the light of other clubs' spending plans, we must invest and restructure just to stand still. To not do so would mean in relative terms we move backwards - something we saw time and time again in the dark days of no funding being available for squad development under Moyes.

 

[AndyC]

first time poster: flame off

You know, I get it. I really do. I'm (well over) fifty years old and have followed Everton all my life. And still, after all this time I cannot be talked to for the first thirty minutes after we lose a game. Especially when it feels like we just weren't trying. If we're outplayed, outgunned and out manoeuvred then I can live with it. But, truthfully, those kind of games are few and far between. These days, when we lose, it's because the team just did not gel. Basics get missed and the Manager just does not seem to have a plan B. So (to get back on topic) when I hear players and their agents talking bullshit about wanting to be somewhere else, I just think [Poor language removed] Them. If they don't want to play for us, [Poor language removed] jog on. And that goes for Lukaku, Stones, Mirallas and anyone else who thinks they are too good for the shirt. Everton is a family, a marriage. And it's for the long haul, or not at all. Lukaku is a great player. One of the most consistent strikers I've had the privilege of seeing play for us. But if he does not want to be here then thanks for the memories and see you later.

Really good post - and boy oh boy can I relate to the not being talked to bit.

My missus, bless her, comes to the games and for the 90 minutes or so, she gets involved (in her own way which isn't overly demonstrative) and then by the time we're out of the stadium, she's totally switched off from footie... whereas I, like so many others - if we've lost - fume, grumble, go quiet, rage, rant, moan, bitch, whinge (pick your own preference) for at least an hour or longer.

Losing poorly, without any seeming effort totally screws up my weekend.

I was lucky after the Arsenal game in that I could vent some of my anger in the match report in exactly the opposite frame of mind in which I felt and wrote the match report after the Chelski game.

At times Everton, the players, management, board, fans, just about every sodding thing about the club drives me to distraction... but, they're my club till I pass and I'll keep going and supporting them as long as I possibly can - irrespective of who's wearing the shirt.

COYB !!!