Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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That sets an interesting precedent. What exactly qualifies as an 'emergency'? How does one quantify when one is not in a state of emergency? How does one quantify the impact migration has on that state of emergency?

Maybe they have answers to these, but to me it sounds like a political fudge to put the referendum to bed whilst returning to how things were in a few years time.

There is a more concerted effort looking into avoiding a true Brexit than there is in looking how to manage it for the UK.

The political willpower is geared up to maintain the status quo.

It isn't the economic side that scares them, people who made a lot of money before the referendum still make a lot of money now, the fear is of the little people realising how much power they have and deciding to use it for their interests.

'Democracy' terrifies the system.
 
To be fair, that is good news.
On the flip side, a large minority of people working in the hospitality sector are migrants

http://www.people1st.co.uk/getattac...grants_Insight_Report_Hospitality_V6.pdf.aspx

So, if we don't let them stay, or don't let new migrants in to do the work, then we're relying on UK born folk to pick up the slack. That will require investment in training and, probably to a lesser extent, a change in attitudes because those sorts of jobs aren't seen as very desirable

One of the issues is the change in attitude to 'professions and skills'. A lot of younger generations are trapped into the debt/university or x-factor stardom aspirations.
Traditional skilled professions tend to be largely ignored as the economy goes through the change from labour driven to technology driven, especially as the rewards are in the technological intellect areas.

I genuinely feel for the younger ones among us that don't have the clarity the job market used to have. I believe the ambitions are still there but a lot of the time they are not realistic, not because of the ability of each person but by the limited opportunities.

The gaps are filled by those from economies not so far down the technological path.
 
One of the issues is the change in attitude to 'professions and skills'. A lot of younger generations are trapped into the debt/university or x-factor stardom aspirations.
Traditional skilled professions tend to be largely ignored as the economy goes through the change from labour driven to technology driven, especially as the rewards are in the technological intellect areas.

I genuinely feel for the younger ones among us that don't have the clarity the job market used to have. I believe the ambitions are still there but a lot of the time they are not realistic, not because of the ability of each person but by the limited opportunities.

The gaps are filled by those from economies not so far down the technological path.

Very true all that.

I've not done it for a while, but I used to mentor some kids who were in their last year or two at high school and they often were either massively optimistic in their ambitions, but had no plan to deliver them, or had been downtrodden into believing there were no opportunities for them.

Convincing them to try and concentrate on something they actually enjoyed doing and seeing if it could lead to a career / job could be a nightmare at times. One lad loved being outdoors and dealing with animals, but also wanted to be rich ! Eventually we got him to go and have a look what they were doing at Myerscough College and he's ended up doing something he loves and, while he'll never be rich, he's unlikely to be out of work either.

Anyway, I digress, tis a shame we've left the EU, if for no other reason that I'll have to continue to pay roaming charges.
 
Chief economist at World Economics, Professor Brian Sturgess, said the signs already showed Remain’s Project Fear was “completely wrong”.

He added: “The pound was overvalued by at least five per cent before the vote and now is undervalued by about seven per cent, excellent news for exports and our trade balance.

“The economic good fortune is coming even before we agree trade deals around the world. Prospects are good and they will only get better.”

Yesterday the FTSE 100 built on an 11-year high level earlier this week of 6,700, climbing to 6,730.48.

Ashok Vaswani, UK chief executive of Barclays, warned: “This is an opportunity to step up and say, ‘Hey, we are bigger than how we feel.’ It’s definitely not all doom and gloom.”

Leon restaurants founder John Vincent said: “This is really exciting. We needed a kick up the arse.”

The Ftse 100 was over 7000 last year those figures are wrong

In fact I'm pretty sure it's been at a higher point in each of the last 3 years
 
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Well that didn't take very long.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...losing-factories-raising-prices-europe-brexit

Ford has warned it is considering closing factories and raising prices in the UK and Europe in the wake of Britain’s vote to leave the European Union.

Announcing disappointing results on Thursday, the motor company forecast that the referendum decision could cost the company $1bn over the next two years.

Ford has two remaining manufacturing plants in the UK, at Dagenham and Bridgend. Asked if the group would shut its remaining UK manufacturing operations after Brexit, Shanks said: “Everything is going to be on the table across Europe”.

Ford employs 14,000 people at it's Dagenham and Bridgend plants.
 
A little satire on a Friday.

http://newsthump.com/2016/07/22/bre...ing-they-were-told-would-happen-is-happening/

Brexit supporters are furious that people keep pointing out that the things they were told would happen if we voted to leave the EU are now actually happening.

In a week in which the IMF cut the UK’s 2017 growth forecast by 0.9% and economic activity dropped to its lowest level since 2009, Brexiters are furious they are being asked to take a cursory look at the news.

“I don’t need to look at the news because we won and you need to get over it”, claimed Brexiter Graham Williams.

“Things are only getting worse because you keep saying they’re getting worse – there is no other possible explanation for it! Things don’t get worse because of the underlying economic conditions; they get worse because people keep talking about it on social media!

“I don’t care if this is almost exactly what the experts said would happen if we voted to leave the EU; experts don’t know anything!

“You’re all just a bunch of whiney losers reading reports and economic indicators because you don’t like that you lost, you big fat losers!”

However, some Brexit supporters have said their own economic indicators show we’re doing just fine thank you very much.

“The FTSE is doing ok, that’s the real British economy!” claimed one, seemingly oblivious to the fact that FTSE 100 is about as British as Lamb Biriyani.

“You can use figures to prove anything; look, I’ve just written on this paper that the UK is better off outside the EU, so there.

“End of"
 
Yet somehow a cheap vacation in London by Dieter and his German family is somehow a good thing for the UK.

Cheap imports for him from the UK also are somehow good for the UK.

Sounds like the UK are aspiring to be the Mexico of Europe...minus the boss beaches and food.
 
This hits the nail on the head for me. http://www.economist.com/news/leade...ew?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/thenewpoliticaldivide

AS POLITICAL theatre, America’s party conventions have no parallel. Activists from right and left converge to choose their nominees and celebrate conservatism (Republicans) and progressivism (Democrats). But this year was different, and not just because Hillary Clinton became the first woman to be nominated for president by a major party. The conventions highlighted a new political faultline: not between left and right, but between open and closed (seearticle). Donald Trump, the Republican nominee, summed up one side of this divide with his usual pithiness. “Americanism, not globalism, will be our credo,” he declared. His anti-trade tirades were echoed by the Bernie Sanders wing of the Democratic Party.

America is not alone. Across Europe, the politicians with momentum are those who argue that the world is a nasty, threatening place, and that wise nations should build walls to keep it out. Such arguments have helped elect an ultranationalist government in Hungary and a Polish one that offers a Trumpian mix of xenophobia and disregard for constitutional norms. Populist, authoritarian European parties of the right or left now enjoy nearly twice as much support as they did in 2000, and are in government or in a ruling coalition in nine countries. So far, Britain’s decision to leave the European Union has been the anti-globalists’ biggest prize: the vote in June to abandon the world’s most successful free-trade club was won by cynically pandering to voters’ insular instincts, splitting mainstream parties down the middle.

News that strengthens the anti-globalisers’ appeal comes almost daily. On July 26th two men claiming allegiance to Islamic State slit the throat of an 85-year-old Catholic priest in a church near Rouen. It was the latest in a string of terrorist atrocities in France and Germany. The danger is that a rising sense of insecurity will lead to more electoral victories for closed-world types. This is the gravest risk to the free world since communism. Nothing matters more than countering it.

Higher walls, lower living standards

Start by remembering what is at stake. The multilateral system of institutions, rules and alliances, led by America, has underpinned global prosperity for seven decades. It enabled the rebuilding of post-war Europe, saw off the closed world of Soviet communism and, by connecting China to the global economy, brought about the greatest poverty reduction in history.

A world of wall-builders would be poorer and more dangerous. If Europe splits into squabbling pieces and America retreats into an isolationist crouch, less benign powers will fill the vacuum. Mr Trump’s revelation that he might not defend America’s Baltic allies if they are menaced by Russia was unfathomably irresponsible (seearticle). America has sworn to treat an attack on any member of the NATO alliance as an attack on all. If Mr Trump can blithely dishonour a treaty, why would any ally trust America again? Without even being elected, he has emboldened the world’s troublemakers. Small wonder Vladimir Putin backs him. Even so, for Mr Trump to urge Russia to keep hacking Democrats’ e-mails is outrageous.

The wall-builders have already done great damage. Britain seems to be heading for a recession, thanks to the prospect of Brexit. The European Union is tottering: if France were to elect the nationalist Marine Le Pen as president next year and then follow Britain out of the door, the EU could collapse. Mr Trump has sucked confidence out of global institutions as his casinos suck cash out of punters’ pockets. With a prospective president of the world’s largest economy threatening to block new trade deals, scrap existing ones and stomp out of the World Trade Organisation if he doesn’t get his way, no firm that trades abroad can approach 2017 with equanimity.

In defence of openness

Countering the wall-builders will require stronger rhetoric, bolder policies and smarter tactics. First, the rhetoric. Defenders of the open world order need to make their case more forthrightly. They must remind voters why NATO matters for America, why the EU matters for Europe, how free trade and openness to foreigners enrich societies, and why fighting terrorism effectively demands co-operation. Too many friends of globalisation are retreating, mumbling about “responsible nationalism”. Only a handful of politicians—Justin Trudeau in Canada, Emmanuel Macron in France—are brave enough to stand up for openness. Those who believe in it must fight for it.

They must also acknowledge, however, where globalisation needs work. Trade creates many losers, and rapid immigration can disrupt communities. But the best way to address these problems is not to throw up barriers. It is to devise bold policies that preserve the benefits of openness while alleviating its side-effects. Let goods and investment flow freely, but strengthen the social safety-net to offer support and new opportunities for those whose jobs are destroyed. To manage immigration flows better, invest in public infrastructure, ensure that immigrants work and allow for rules that limit surges of people (just as global trade rules allow countries to limit surges in imports). But don’t equate managing globalisation with abandoning it.

As for tactics, the question for pro-open types, who are found on both sides of the traditional left-right party divide, is how to win. The best approach will differ by country. In the Netherlands and Sweden, centrist parties have banded together to keep out nationalists. A similar alliance defeated the National Front’s Jean-Marie Le Pen in the run-off for France’s presidency in 2002, and may be needed again to beat his daughter in 2017. Britain may yet need a new party of the centre.

In America, where most is at stake, the answer must come from within the existing party structure. Republicans who are serious about resisting the anti-globalists should hold their noses and support Mrs Clinton. And Mrs Clinton herself, now that she has won the nomination, must champion openness clearly, rather than equivocating. Her choice of Tim Kaine, a Spanish-speaking globalist, as her running-mate is a good sign. But the polls are worryingly close. The future of the liberal world order depends on whether she succeeds.
 
I hope no one expects us to build a wall after the Polish builders bugger off.
Well if the Polish built it it would fall down anyway, joke, we really have to get proper apprenticeships going instead of uni media studies subjets to for our youth, and any one unemployed-
Blame Brexit for everything typical of a bank shutting down on the high st it's been happening while we were in the EU due to online banking!
Certain things will be bumpy, but to start blaming Brexit is just stupid!
 
Well if the Polish built it it would fall down anyway, joke, we really have to get proper apprenticeships going instead of uni media studies subjets to for our youth, and any one unemployed-
Blame Brexit for everything typical of a bank shutting down on the high st it's been happening while we were in the EU due to online banking!
Certain things will be bumpy, but to start blaming Brexit is just stupid!

I quite agree on the training front, and have said a few times in this thread that we need to get better at managing the 'losers' from globalisation. This will typically mean getting much better at offering people the kind of training they need to re-skill. Of course, whilst we should be wary of blaming Brexit for any dip in UK performance, it's equally wrong to blame the EU for our inability to support people made redundant because of globalisation.

Indeed, I learned today that the EU have a fund for just that purpose, but that the UK didn't want to use it, preferring instead our own fund. That'd be fine and dandy if our government didn't then proceed to 'fund' this project with about £6 million, thus rendering it hardly fit for the job. It's an area I feel we can learn an awful lot from Germany.
 
I quite agree on the training front, and have said a few times in this thread that we need to get better at managing the 'losers' from globalisation. This will typically mean getting much better at offering people the kind of training they need to re-skill. Of course, whilst we should be wary of blaming Brexit for any dip in UK performance, it's equally wrong to blame the EU for our inability to support people made redundant because of globalisation.

Indeed, I learned today that the EU have a fund for just that purpose, but that the UK didn't want to use it, preferring instead our own fund. That'd be fine and dandy if our government didn't then proceed to 'fund' this project with about £6 million, thus rendering it hardly fit for the job. It's an area I feel we can learn an awful lot from Germany.
That's why I would like to see what is available of the 18 billion in our power, put to good use I feel we will have to pay for a single market deal trade deal within the EU - getting out of the polictical Union,and being open to world trade we maybe could start manufacturing again.
Yes we can have immigration just to fill in skill shortfall not a free for all movement for anyone, then it will settle down, into hopefully a bright future it's nice to see. The new Government putting back the Hinckly power station as it sounded like we were bein ripped off, and that type of power station projects are behind schedule all over - Gideon was not as bright as we thought!
 
This hits the nail on the head for me. http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21702750-farewell-left-versus-right-contest-matters-now-open-against-closed-new?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/thenewpoliticaldivide

AS POLITICAL theatre, America’s party conventions have no parallel. Activists from right and left converge to choose their nominees and celebrate conservatism (Republicans) and progressivism (Democrats). But this year was different, and not just because Hillary Clinton became the first woman to be nominated for president by a major party. The conventions highlighted a new political faultline: not between left and right, but between open and closed (seearticle). Donald Trump, the Republican nominee, summed up one side of this divide with his usual pithiness. “Americanism, not globalism, will be our credo,” he declared. His anti-trade tirades were echoed by the Bernie Sanders wing of the Democratic Party.

America is not alone. Across Europe, the politicians with momentum are those who argue that the world is a nasty, threatening place, and that wise nations should build walls to keep it out. Such arguments have helped elect an ultranationalist government in Hungary and a Polish one that offers a Trumpian mix of xenophobia and disregard for constitutional norms. Populist, authoritarian European parties of the right or left now enjoy nearly twice as much support as they did in 2000, and are in government or in a ruling coalition in nine countries. So far, Britain’s decision to leave the European Union has been the anti-globalists’ biggest prize: the vote in June to abandon the world’s most successful free-trade club was won by cynically pandering to voters’ insular instincts, splitting mainstream parties down the middle.

News that strengthens the anti-globalisers’ appeal comes almost daily. On July 26th two men claiming allegiance to Islamic State slit the throat of an 85-year-old Catholic priest in a church near Rouen. It was the latest in a string of terrorist atrocities in France and Germany. The danger is that a rising sense of insecurity will lead to more electoral victories for closed-world types. This is the gravest risk to the free world since communism. Nothing matters more than countering it.

Higher walls, lower living standards

Start by remembering what is at stake. The multilateral system of institutions, rules and alliances, led by America, has underpinned global prosperity for seven decades. It enabled the rebuilding of post-war Europe, saw off the closed world of Soviet communism and, by connecting China to the global economy, brought about the greatest poverty reduction in history.

A world of wall-builders would be poorer and more dangerous. If Europe splits into squabbling pieces and America retreats into an isolationist crouch, less benign powers will fill the vacuum. Mr Trump’s revelation that he might not defend America’s Baltic allies if they are menaced by Russia was unfathomably irresponsible (seearticle). America has sworn to treat an attack on any member of the NATO alliance as an attack on all. If Mr Trump can blithely dishonour a treaty, why would any ally trust America again? Without even being elected, he has emboldened the world’s troublemakers. Small wonder Vladimir Putin backs him. Even so, for Mr Trump to urge Russia to keep hacking Democrats’ e-mails is outrageous.

The wall-builders have already done great damage. Britain seems to be heading for a recession, thanks to the prospect of Brexit. The European Union is tottering: if France were to elect the nationalist Marine Le Pen as president next year and then follow Britain out of the door, the EU could collapse. Mr Trump has sucked confidence out of global institutions as his casinos suck cash out of punters’ pockets. With a prospective president of the world’s largest economy threatening to block new trade deals, scrap existing ones and stomp out of the World Trade Organisation if he doesn’t get his way, no firm that trades abroad can approach 2017 with equanimity.

In defence of openness

Countering the wall-builders will require stronger rhetoric, bolder policies and smarter tactics. First, the rhetoric. Defenders of the open world order need to make their case more forthrightly. They must remind voters why NATO matters for America, why the EU matters for Europe, how free trade and openness to foreigners enrich societies, and why fighting terrorism effectively demands co-operation. Too many friends of globalisation are retreating, mumbling about “responsible nationalism”. Only a handful of politicians—Justin Trudeau in Canada, Emmanuel Macron in France—are brave enough to stand up for openness. Those who believe in it must fight for it.

They must also acknowledge, however, where globalisation needs work. Trade creates many losers, and rapid immigration can disrupt communities. But the best way to address these problems is not to throw up barriers. It is to devise bold policies that preserve the benefits of openness while alleviating its side-effects. Let goods and investment flow freely, but strengthen the social safety-net to offer support and new opportunities for those whose jobs are destroyed. To manage immigration flows better, invest in public infrastructure, ensure that immigrants work and allow for rules that limit surges of people (just as global trade rules allow countries to limit surges in imports). But don’t equate managing globalisation with abandoning it.

As for tactics, the question for pro-open types, who are found on both sides of the traditional left-right party divide, is how to win. The best approach will differ by country. In the Netherlands and Sweden, centrist parties have banded together to keep out nationalists. A similar alliance defeated the National Front’s Jean-Marie Le Pen in the run-off for France’s presidency in 2002, and may be needed again to beat his daughter in 2017. Britain may yet need a new party of the centre.

In America, where most is at stake, the answer must come from within the existing party structure. Republicans who are serious about resisting the anti-globalists should hold their noses and support Mrs Clinton. And Mrs Clinton herself, now that she has won the nomination, must champion openness clearly, rather than equivocating. Her choice of Tim Kaine, a Spanish-speaking globalist, as her running-mate is a good sign. But the polls are worryingly close. The future of the liberal world order depends on whether she succeeds.

A rejection of globalism and cultural Marxism. People now have a renewed belief in the nation state.
 
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