Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Old Blue 2]

If that’s to me OB , I tried to reply sensibly and politely . Something I try to do in both the real and internet worlds . If somehow I’ve failed to deal with your point I’d be happy to discuss and debate civilly , as I try to with everybody I disagree with here . If you don’t want to discuss then fair enough .

A good reply, and I will respond on that basis.

My simple point is that nobody in both campaigns (as a campaigner) had any function to perform post-23rd June 2016. Of course, some who had campaigned Leave later got into a Cabinet position where they bring influence to bear - that is a simple fact of political life.

In the run-up to 23rd June, their remit was to campaign. They could issue no promises, as they were not in a position to be able to guarantee ANYTHING. They were, pure and simple, campaigners. They could argue the respective merits (both sides), but deliver nothing. The Referendum was 100% different to a General Election, where promises are made (make your own mind up as to whether they are/were ever kept!) by a political party. The referendum was cross-party, as you know.

So to sum up: both side could campaign like hell, but had no clout whatsoever in implementation of the result. That was down to the Government of the day, and one of the greatest surprises was that in a matter of weeks, both the PM and Chancellor baled out - two of the worst derelictions of duty I have ever seen.

Campaigning = no executive function
Implementation = Executive function to carry out and complete task set.

I hope this clarifies things for you...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Peter Bone (deliberately) misunderstanding what was said and acting the wounded flower. He perhaps needs some Doctor Martins to wear.

 

[Harryflashman]

A good reply, and I will respond on that basis.

My simple point is that nobody in both campaigns (as a campaigner) had any function to perform post-23rd June 2016. Of course, some who had campaigned Leave later got into a Cabinet position where they bring influence to bear - that is a simple fact of political life.

In the run-up to 23rd June, their remit was to campaign. They could issue no promises, as they were not in a position to be able to guarantee ANYTHING. They were, pure and simple, campaigners. They could argue the respective merits (both sides), but deliver nothing. The Referendum was 100% different to a General Election, where promises are made (make your own mind up as to whether they are/were ever kept!) by a political party. The referendum was cross-party, as you know.

So to sum up: both side could campaign like hell, but had no clout whatsoever in implementation of the result. That was down to the Government of the day, and one of the greatest surprises was that in a matter of weeks, both the PM and Chancellor baled out - two of the worst derelictions of duty I have ever seen.

Campaigning = no executive function
Implementation = Executive function to carry out and complete task set.

I hope this clarifies things for you...

I totally agree on the pm and chancellor , although in the case of chancellor it was perhaps less his choice . Throughout the whole of brexit The bevshour of Cameron has been nothing short of disgraceful.

I can to a degree see the point you’re making in that the campaigns per se had no influence but many of those involved were senior politicians for example gove and Johnson at cabinet level . How can it be unreasonable to suggest that they shouldn’t have any idea of what the future held ? I can’t help but think that it seems ridiculous that people campaigning and advocating a Brexit seem to have had no idea of what route to take .

although I accept your point on power it’s clear we disagree but it seems a completely free pass for those who in some cases this is their life work . I for one simply cannot imagine being so passionate nor so interested in a topic but never having considered the consequences particularly in many cases when it’s actually my job as it is with policians .

 

[Harryflashman]

Peter Bone (deliberately) misunderstanding what was said and acting the wounded flower. He perhaps needs some Doctor Martins to wear.

So Bone seems to have misquoted him , we can only speculate it that was intentional. I know what I suspect .

 

[Tubey]

Hilarious. By being offended, they're basically admitting that they never had a plan.

 

[Old Blue 2]

I totally agree on the pm and chancellor , although in the case of chancellor it was perhaps less his choice . Throughout the whole of brexit The bevshour of Cameron has been nothing short of disgraceful.

I can to a degree see the point you’re making in that the campaigns per se had no influence but many of those involved were senior politicians for example gove and Johnson at cabinet level . How can it be unreasonable to suggest that they shouldn’t have any idea of what the future held ? I can’t help but think that it seems ridiculous that people campaigning and advocating a Brexit seem to have had no idea of what route to take .

although I accept your point on power it’s clear we disagree but it seems a completely free pass for those who in some cases this is their life work . I for one simply cannot imagine being so passionate nor so interested in a topic but never having considered the consequences particularly in many cases when it’s actually my job as it is with policians .

The normal procedure in the highest Government circles and Civil Service is that when a major event is on the horizon, plans are set in place for all outcomes. So in the run-up to a General Election, plans are set in place for the party in power to continue in power, and also for the opposition to move into power. The same thing should have been done in the months before the Referendum, but as we know now, nothing was done. One may castigate Gove and Johnson, but the real culprit is Cameron, in not exercising his Executive duty and ensuring such things were done.

On a side note: if I was one who was in the 'Remain' camp, I would have been horrified at what Tusk said. I would think 'He's transferred hundreds of thousands of Remain voters to the Leave camp today in one stroke with his denigration of our politicians'. On a more general note, I personally think, 'Is this the kind of person I want leading the UK in the future on all issues relating to our future, when he appears to have nothing but contempt for the leaders of the UK?' That is the size of it. It reinforces my view that the sooner we are away from gobeens like him, the better!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So Bone seems to have misquoted him , we can only speculate it that was intentional. I know what I suspect .

It doesn't help when the BBC headline is 'Brexiteers', which suggests Tusk was talking about leave voters rather than the likes of Farage and Johnson who campaigned for it without a plan. It's very poor. They removed a tweet with that headline after people complained that was deliberately misrepresenting what Tusk said, but the website still carries the same headline.

 

[Khalekan]

Well said Mr. Tusk.

And wee Bercow is a heck of a guy lol

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

It's Bruce thinking he's superior......when a hards days manual work would kill him.......

Rough hand live, smooth hand gets it! Up the rebellion.

 

[Harryflashman]

The normal procedure in the highest Government circles and Civil Service is that when a major event is on the horizon, plans are set in place for all outcomes. So in the run-up to a General Election, plans are set in place for the party in power to continue in power, and also for the opposition to move into power. The same thing should have been done in the months before the Referendum, but as we know now, nothing was done. One may castigate Gove and Johnson, but the real culprit is Cameron, in not exercising his Executive duty and ensuring such things were done.

On a side not: if I was one who was in the 'Remain' camp, I would have been horrified at what Tusk said. I would think 'He's transferred hundreds of thousands of Remain voters to the Leave camp today in one stroke with his denigration of our politicians'. On a more general note, I personally think, 'Is this the kind of person I want leading the UK in the future on all issues relating to our future, when he appears to have nothing but contempt for the leaders of the UK?' That is the size of it. It reinforces my view that the sooner we are away from gobeens like him, the better!

I think many on here including me have been incredibly critical of Cameron , a lot of us disappointed by events consider him to carry a considerable proportion of the blame .

The behaviour of many politicians throughout these events have disgusted me although possibly for different reasons than you and many other leavers . Some of the dog whistle politics is not what I ever thought I’d see whilst the misrepresentation of facts even when confronted by reality leaves me shaking my head . I’ve no idea if like most leavers you’re disillusioned by politiciansbut if you are well I’m honestly not too far behind you and this whole series of events starts at Cameron’s door .

 

[Harryflashman]

Hilarious. By being offended, they're basically admitting that they never had a plan.

Im sure somebody will say them being offended is PC culture gone mad., maybe not .

 

[davek]

Tusk should have really wound them up and shouted Tiocfaidh Ár Lá!!!!!!

 

[Joey66]

Reported.

You in Lycra you should be reportedlol

I wonder if you are the tall one Bruce?

 

[Ruairi77]

The normal procedure in the highest Government circles and Civil Service is that when a major event is on the horizon, plans are set in place for all outcomes. So in the run-up to a General Election, plans are set in place for the party in power to continue in power, and also for the opposition to move into power. The same thing should have been done in the months before the Referendum, but as we know now, nothing was done. One may castigate Gove and Johnson, but the real culprit is Cameron, in not exercising his Executive duty and ensuring such things were done.

On a side note: if I was one who was in the 'Remain' camp, I would have been horrified at what Tusk said. I would think 'He's transferred hundreds of thousands of Remain voters to the Leave camp today in one stroke with his denigration of our politicians'. On a more general note, I personally think, 'Is this the kind of person I want leading the UK in the future on all issues relating to our future, when he appears to have nothing but contempt for the leaders of the UK?' That is the size of it. It reinforces my view that the sooner we are away from gobeens like him, the better!

In the first paragraph you're damning the politicians who brought about Brexit with no plan
and in the second, you're castigating Tusk for doing the same thing.

 

[Old Blue 2]

I think many on here including me have been incredibly critical of Cameron , a lot of us disappointed by events consider him to carry a considerable proportion of the blame .

The behaviour of many politicians throughout these events have disgusted me although possibly for different reasons than you and many other leavers . Some of the dog whistle politics is not what I ever thought I’d see whilst the misrepresentation of facts even when confronted by reality leaves me shaking my head . I’ve no idea if like most leavers you’re disillusioned by politiciansbut if you are well I’m honestly not too far behind you and this whole series of events starts at Cameron’s door .

There are very few politicians I have time for.

Jack Ashley, who always spoke well, and always represented the case for the disabled with dignity and class. A man who, I believe, was respected on all sides of the house.

Dennis Skinner, a man passionate about ordinary working people and their need to get a fair crack of the whip.

And the young Scottish girl in the SNP, Mhairi Black, who is not scared to speak her mind in Parliament about everyday issues.