England Under 21 Euro 2015 Thread

[Caolam]

Not being English I don't want to intrude on your grief but I would say there is no simple solution to your international problems. All the things mentioned in this thread have veracity. Nothing will change until there is a complete overhaul of football in England. You need a Public Inquiry into the whole system. It needs to be independent and it needs to be focused. Can't see it happening, the power lies with the vested interests.

 

[hullefc]

The English national team have won 1 World Cup and won the U21's UEFA European championship in 1982 and 1984. The U20's have never won their world cup finishing runners up in 1993.

In other words England don't win things at international level. The FA have tried everything. Non English managers, did not work. Change the structure of the league, including less teams in the top league. And including telling the English football public that the Premier League will help the national team, nothing of the sort has happened. England are no nearer winning an international tournament and the beating up all and sundry about why England are not winning is a constant theme.

English players are just not good enough. The 'golden' generation, all playing in the CL never got anywhere near winning a major tournament because they were not good enough. Technically inferior to continental players and tactically backwards compared to other countries players. You only have to look at the Premier League. Take Arsenal. Bergkamp, and other continental players took Arsenal to a different level. Zola, and others at Chelsea. Cantona at United. All able to add that spark/class/creativity sorely lacking in English players.

The nearest England had to going far in tournaments were when the United Brigade of Beckham, Nevilles, Scholes, Butt add Ferdinand were at their height. But they didn't have the other players around that could take England to a winning team.

The England national team will always suffer from the over-hyped rubbish written about English players. They are not as good as the media make out and as a result get found out in major tournaments. Failure will continue to dog English international teams.

 

[Brendan Janus]

Our best under 21 players didn't go, there in lies the problem, simple as !!

 

[Dithering Dougie]

I think the Germans style is the one we should copy if we are going to copy one. They have similar climate to ours etc, play aggressive pressing off the ball with fast counter attacks etc.

I think this is part of the problem to be honest.

Every few years theres a passing of power on the international front, Spain before Germany, Italy before Spain and France before Italy etc etc and we continually fail, and it's always the same argument put forward "we need to copy....". But the other nations don't do this they have their peaks and troughs with success and failure and the managers may change but by and large they continue along the same path with the same principles and characteristics.

Every 4 years of failure see's England ripping up the last dominate forces strategy and imitating the lastest new trend, they need to accept and develop our own identity and characteristics. Accept that we've not got the technique of Spain or the organisation of Italy or the power and confidence of Germany and develop a style that suits the players England produces. It doesn't work copying other people's ideas they need to be having their own and show conviction in them if they want to be successful. Traditonally we've played with determination and aggression, that's Englands trait whether we like it or not. They should be developing a football strategy around that not be embarressed by it.

If they want success they need to develop their own ideas not copy others because by the time they've started implementing them footballs moved on the we're a few steps behind again looking lost.

 

[USABlue]

Were people really comparing hart and Neuer a few pages back? That's part of England's problem, think the players are better than they are. Also think the Prem hurts your national team. Most of the top players in the league aren't english. Lastly the apathy towards the international game is a hindernce. Players, fans, etc don't seem arsed if it's not the prem

 

[marty mcfly]

That's it. U17 is more of a level playing field, youngsters from all countries play youth level football and England do well. But when they get to the age groups just above kids from other countries start getting 1st team football in their top flights whilst ours are lucky to get games in the championship. The ones who do start playing in the prem get fast-tracked straight to the full squad because our seniors are awful.

Exactly.

The premiership has ruined English football for exactly this reason which is why I said there's a big gap between the current U21s and Beckhams generation who while where effected, not to the same degree.

Ironically having a quota system isn't going to help and will make matters worse. All you will get is teams like what Liverpool are doing with Ings, those that might make it is that they're buying them up to meet a squad requirement. This is even worse because while I don't think Ings will be good enough at least if he was playing regularly for a lower team he might improve and by the time he was 25 be good enough.

You almost need to make it a first 11 requirement or not have anything at all.

 

[roydo]

You need a Public Inquiry into the whole system. It needs to be independent and it needs to be focused.

We have one every 4 years. At least.

 

[marty mcfly]

.....not so sure, Jack Charlton got a relatively ordinary Irish team to the latter stages of a World Cup and it wasn't that long ago that Greece won the Euro's.

Good times.

But England are never going to play that style of football. Even the Irish fans and media rebelled against it with Trappattoni.

And that team wasn't that ordinary. This is the team that drew with England.


GK 1 Packie Bonner
RB 2 Chris Morris

51'
CB 4 Mick McCarthy (c)
CB 5 Kevin Moran
LB 3 Steve Staunton
MF 8 Ray Houghton
MF 7 Paul McGrath
MF 13 Andy Townsend
MF 11 Kevin Sheedy
FW 9 John Aldridge

64'
FW 10 Tony Cascarino

I suspect a fair few would get into the current England team.

Premiership football hasn't just ruined England. It has ruined Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic. Which is the real evidence that shows it has nothing to do with the FA's strategy.

 

[wandyr79]

It has been said a hundred times but we have good players at all levels, it is the mentality and the coaching that is the issue.

All academies across the country should be standardised as much as possible, one central location for coach training for the academies and they go back and implement that style. Seems simple and obviously it is not but developing a whole nation of good footballers needs the whole nation on the same page.

I agree, and again has been said a hundred times, but midfield is the key area and needs massive work. We don't need to 'copy' other countries styles, we just need a few players that can put there foot on the ball and control things from DM to AM.

 

[marty mcfly]

It has been said a hundred times but we have good players at all levels, it is the mentality and the coaching that is the issue.

All academies across the country should be standardised as much as possible, one central location for coach training for the academies and they go back and implement that style. Seems simple and obviously it is not but developing a whole nation of good footballers needs the whole nation on the same page.

I agree, and again has been said a hundred times, but midfield is the key area and needs massive work. We don't need to 'copy' other countries styles, we just need a few players that can put there foot on the ball and control things from DM to AM.

It might have been said a hundred times but it's wrong. It's the premiership importing all the foreign players. Simple as.

btw - This is more to do with why the senior team is rubbish not why the U21 went out. I agree that had they taken their best team they would have stood a chance. But England have been here before and it's this next step from 19-25 where the players just don't get the experience and the senior team suffers.

 

[Caolam]

It might have been said a hundred times but it's wrong. It's the premiership importing all the foreign players. Simple as.

If the English players were good enough clubs wouldn't bring in foreigners. Bringing in a quota system will push the cost of English players up further.

 

[wandyr79]

If the English players were good enough clubs wouldn't bring in foreigners. Bringing in a quota system will push the cost of English players up further.

Exactly, for me that is a copout answer.

If the coaching was good enough from 16 and up as a nation then there would be enough English players to negate the need to buy Mr Johnny Foreigner.

It is all about balance.

 

[Billy Dean]

Exactly, for me that is a copout answer.

If the coaching was good enough from 16 and up as a nation then there would be enough English players to negate the need to buy Mr Johnny Foreigner.

It is all about balance.

Good coaches develop good players. Personally don't think Southgate is that bad but the rest are pretty dodgy including Roy. Hopefully more will start coming through soon.

 

[marty mcfly]

If the English players were good enough clubs wouldn't bring in foreigners. Bringing in a quota system will push the cost of English players up further.

Of course if the English players where good enough they wouldn't bring in foreigners however that still ultimately means that young English players have to compete against the rest of the world to play at the very top level in their own country. In Spain they don't. In Italy they don't. In Germany they don't. In Brazil they don't. Notice the pattern?

It's because there's so much money in the premier league to attract the top foreign players (and now not even the top foreign players) the English players are being pushed out to the lower leagues. Leagues that just don't have the same coaching and facilities as the premier league that also play a more physical style of football that quite frankly doesn't cut it when the refs start blowing for every little touch.

And as I said the other huge problem is the stock piling of talent. Young players just aren't getting the game time in England since they're normally owned by premier league clubs who aren't playing them.

This is the reason why Bobby wants some sort of a B League system. He wants to get them games with coaches that he trusts but while that will help the problem it probably won't solve the bigger issue and that is England have a smaller group at the top to select from than ever before.

 

[Caolam]

Good coaches develop good players. Personally don't think Southgate is that bad but the rest are pretty dodgy including Roy. Hopefully more will start coming through soon.

There is no doubt it, good coaching is a the centre of having a successful football nation. As is having an identifiable style that everyone buys into. British football is all about winning at development level. Children are coached on "how to win a match", doesn't matter so much about technique or skill. Go and watch schools football or underage leagues and see what is happening. Frustrated ex players are re-living their youth by intimidating kids into winning. If a team has a larger kid who can push the others about it is all about getting the ball to him.
My grandson has been playing in goals through from under 10, every week he plays on a full size pitch with full size goals, he is not big enough to reach the cross bar let alone cover the 8 yards. He has stuck at it but I have seen loads of young lads stop playing because they get disheartened. The ball is also too heavy for them, they can't hit long passes because they can't kick the heavy ball any distance.
Following this they go into league teams battling for points.
No one ever takes the time to invest in technique or skill simply for the sake of it. Even when they reach the highest levels they now are coached by people who have a system that stops teams getting regulated. There are too many managers who have worked out a system that avoids regulation. They get a young British player and mould him into a player who can "do a job" in a rigid system. They do not develop talent they develop systems.
The Premiership is competitive, it is not very good.
A root and branch change is required, changing one element of what is wrong will not get it right.