Elstone to leave

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orly said:
Using the chairman? How could he? The current chairman has been quite clearly, almost unashamedly, briefing against him the last 12 months. So much so that when he appointed Allardyce, he put the new manager and the DOF in the same car as him and walked with them into the ground, CEO and Chair nowhere in sight. This chairman and the CEO who is clearly his man have lobbied against him, and the culture they have set historically has been one of distrust and chaos - see the Ian Ross emails, it goes that far back.

Plucky little Everton with no money? We've been that under Kenwright / Moyes / Neville, the three dweebs who set a culture (your word) of 'woe is us, we'll be happy being Scrappy-Doo. Trophies won = zero. New stadiums = zero. Selling the best players = many times.

So bullet points:

Yes
Yes
"a manager because he was a fantastic CB" - absolute mince.

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Koeman's record at southampton there. He also got us into Europe last season. Better record than Poch at Southampton. He was a fine choice, second season it went bad. Two subsequent managers have failed to do any better.

"Continuing to do so (given now Big Sam is there with all of his failings) isn't likely to lead to profitability". We're in profit and the debts are settled. So you're wrong.

But again, he chooses those individuals. He's brought in Walsh, Koeman, Allardyce... the list goes on. He's at the top and his 2 years has led to nothing. That's his naivety. Just because he hasn't identified player x doesn't mean he isn't ultimately responsible because he employs the guy who has

Let's break those choices down;

Koeman had to get us into Europe. He did. When it looked like he had lost control, he was sacked. Good choice, then it all went bad, so he was sacked.

Allardyce: clearly Moshiri thought we would go down (we didn't think it, but he did) so he appoints someone to keep us up. He has. Not been nice, thanks for the cheese, now get lost. Let's not forget before that he wanted to appoint a young, progressive coach (Silva) but thanks to Unnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnsy (clearly Kenwright's choice) plunging us into even deeper poop, we had to go nuclear.

Walsh: gets paid £1m a year. Previous club, he was credited (rightly or wrongly) with finding Vardy, Mahrez, Kante, all who when solved will realise big big profits. With Koeman, they bought a lot of crap. With Allardyce, he's bought Walcott (been great) and Tosun (who most people are beginning to get excited about). I think he will get a third summer.

And again, you totally underestimate the role of the CEO. The manager is NOT the most important individual at the club; in European clubs with DoF structures, he is easily dispensable, he's the head coach, he slots into a structure and is taken out when necessary. He's not the doyen like Ferguson, or Moyes was.

When Moshiri assumes full ownership and appoints comfortably the most important position - the CEO - THEN he takes full responsibility for the result. He's spent a quarter of a billion and hasn't yet put his own Chair, Board and CEO in place, and you think he is out of his depth?!?
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I'll have to tackle this piece by piece simply because i'm still at work.
But let's start with Koeman.
You're looking at it simply from a results perspective when there are far more issues at play.
What did Koeman inherit? What did he do it that inheritance? Did he further develop the squad? Was he given significant funds to completely overhaul the playing squad? Or did he do a good job at building and improving on what Pochettino had already done?
I don't know the answer to that.
However, when he came to Everton it was apparent he had inherited an under-performing squad that didn't work nearly hard enough. It had a soft belly and rolled over every time a cross entered the box.
So Koeman comes in, signs Williams, gets men behind the ball. Europe achieved. Great.
After season 1, he completely dismantles any notion of a working ship and floods the team with new players. Naive. All, after selling our best player for 75m.
Who do you think carries the can for that? Koeman? Walsh? Moshiri? Or, as is most likely - all 3. Koeman has never been given / trusted with that amount of money before. Neither had Walsh. Yet here was Moshiri handing them both an open cheque book.
Koeman was a good appointment for a Southampton when he took over. For an Everton with little money but an outstanding striker.
But please, with absolute respect, point to where on his CV it states "spends 200m well". "100m"? "50m"?
It was naive. And despite the assertion what I said is "mince", the words came from Moshiri's mouth:

“For our club to compete in the north-west of England, which is the new Hollywood of football with Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp, we needed a star to stand on the touchline so I got Koeman,” he said.
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Naive.

(PS will have to come back to you later on the rest mate).
 
hibbo'sclass said:
Who's the replacement?
Certainly hope they have a quality external appointment lined up, as his deputy, Denise Barrett-Baxendale, was taught everything she knows about the commercial sector by.....
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That's patently untrue...DBB has always been a high flyer with a good rep in her own right. Actually, she's a much higher grade of exec than Elstone, but good luck to him at the Super League. DBB broke through the glass ceiling ages ago.
 
mkrudden said:
I'll have to tackle this piece by piece simply because i'm still at work.
But let's start with Koeman.
You're looking at it simply from a results perspective when there are far more issues at play.
What did Koeman inherit? What did he do it that inheritance? Did he further develop the squad? Was he given significant funds to completely overhaul the playing squad? Or did he do a good job at building and improving on what Pochettino had already done?
I don't know the answer to that.
However, when he came to Everton it was apparent he had inherited an under-performing squad that didn't work nearly hard enough. It had a soft belly and rolled over every time a cross entered the box.
So Koeman comes in, signs Williams, gets men behind the ball. Europe achieved. Great.
After season 1, he completely dismantles any notion of a working ship and floods the team with new players. Naive. All, after selling our best player for 75m.
Who do you think carries the can for that? Koeman? Walsh? Moshiri? Or, as is most likely - all 3. Koeman has never been given / trusted with that amount of money before. Neither had Walsh. Yet here was Moshiri handing them both an open cheque book.
Koeman was a good appointment for a Southampton when he took over. For an Everton with little money but an outstanding striker.
But please, with absolute respect, point to where on his CV it states "spends 200m well". "100m"? "50m"?
It was naive. And despite the assertion what I said is "mince", the words came from Moshiri's mouth:



Naive.

(PS will have to come back to you later on the rest mate).
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Koeman came into a decimated first team squad, they'd all been sold. He posted that tongue-in-cheek picture of an empty training pitch.

By those unsanctioned interviews from Vlasic and (?) someone else, the club thought they'd got Giroud and then Diego Costa. Koeman could have no complaints if he had signed either. Instead the club allowed him to go into the season with Niasse (bad) and Dominic Calvert-Lewin (seriously bad) and Sandro (ultra bad, sadly). Who negotiates these deals? Well, big billy balls Kenwright is involved for sure. Shows how rank the financial management was when they were telling Vlasic [?] he couldn't have the shirt number he wanted because it was being 'saved for Diego Costa' , pathetic.

Yet here was Moshiri handing them both an open cheque book.
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Not really - we sold Lukaku at a very public premium. Virtually no champions league players were going to join us (which is why Walcott is such a suprise) so we overpaid for what we thought were premier league ready players.

But please, with absolute respect, point to where on his CV it states "spends 200m well"
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What are you blithering on about? Very very few manager has had the chance to spend that sort of money , and the ones that have were not joining Everton. So whoever was going to get the chance to was always going to be in unknown territory.

.......which is why you would have thought the CEO, seven years into his job and the MOST SENIOR PERSON IN THE EXECUTIVE ARM OF THE COMPANY, could have put some controls in place when it got chaotic. But no, let's blame the money man.

I dunno, are you trying to be edgy here like with Martinez?
 

orly said:
Koeman came into a decimated first team squad, they'd all been sold. He posted that tongue-in-cheek picture of an empty training pitch.

By those unsanctioned interviews from Vlasic and (?) someone else, the club thought they'd got Giroud and then Diego Costa. Koeman could have no complaints if he had signed either. Instead the club allowed him to go into the season with Niasse (bad) and Dominic Calvert-Lewin (seriously bad) and Sandro (ultra bad, sadly). Who negotiates these deals? Well, big billy balls Kenwright is involved for sure. Shows how rank the financial management was when they were telling Vlasic [?] he couldn't have the shirt number he wanted because it was being 'saved for Diego Costa' , pathetic.



Not really - we sold Lukaku at a very public premium. Virtually no champions league players were going to join us (which is why Walcott is such a suprise) so we overpaid for what we thought were premier league ready players.



What are you blithering on about? Very very few manager has had the chance to spend that sort of money , and the ones that have were not joining Everton. So whoever was going to get the chance to was always going to be in unknown territory.

.......which is why you would have thought the CEO, seven years into his job and the MOST SENIOR PERSON IN THE EXECUTIVE ARM OF THE COMPANY, could have put some controls in place when it got chaotic. But no, let's blame the money man.

I dunno, are you trying to be edgy here like with Martinez?
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He's still not happy Moshiri sacked roberto...lollol
 

Tony1985 said:
I just hope this is the start of the great mass cull of summer 2018. Bistro boy and his cronies next closely followed by Walsh and Kenwright.
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Mega high risk to get rid of the CEO, Chair, Manager and Director of Football in a single quarter of the year! Can't see it at all.
 
orly said:
Koeman came into a decimated first team squad, they'd all been sold. He posted that tongue-in-cheek picture of an empty training pitch.

By those unsanctioned interviews from Vlasic and (?) someone else, the club thought they'd got Giroud and then Diego Costa. Koeman could have no complaints if he had signed either. Instead the club allowed him to go into the season with Niasse (bad) and Dominic Calvert-Lewin (seriously bad) and Sandro (ultra bad, sadly). Who negotiates these deals? Well, big billy balls Kenwright is involved for sure. Shows how rank the financial management was when they were telling Vlasic [?] he couldn't have the shirt number he wanted because it was being 'saved for Diego Costa' , pathetic.

Not really - we sold Lukaku at a very public premium. Virtually no champions league players were going to join us (which is why Walcott is such a suprise) so we overpaid for what we thought were premier league ready players.

What are you blithering on about? Very very few manager has had the chance to spend that sort of money , and the ones that have were not joining Everton. So whoever was going to get the chance to was always going to be in unknown territory.

.......which is why you would have thought the CEO, seven years into his job and the MOST SENIOR PERSON IN THE EXECUTIVE ARM OF THE COMPANY, could have put some controls in place when it got chaotic. But no, let's blame the money man.

I dunno, are you trying to be edgy here like with Martinez?
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Thought they'd got Giroud and then Diego Costa. Given that they didn't ever sign, is that not by very definition naive? Where does the naivety end? With the manager? With the DOF? Or with the guy that threw them together because Leicester won the PL and Koeman, I maintain, who was brought in because he is a Hollywood manager. There is no denying that- there is a direct quote above.

What are you blithering on about? Very very few manager has had the chance to spend that sort of money , and the ones that have were not joining Everton. So whoever was going to get the chance to was always going to be in unknown territory.
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Pellegrini? Mancini? Just two examples which took me 14 seconds to think of. To suggest that "very few" have had the chance is a huge exaggeration. They are out there and don't take a Football Manager database brain to find them. Certainly people with better credentials than Ronald Koeman

.which is why you would have thought the CEO, seven years into his job and the MOST SENIOR PERSON IN THE EXECUTIVE ARM OF THE COMPANY, could have put some controls in place when it got chaotic. But no, let's blame the money man.
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So just to clarify, you are saying that the CEO is responsible for organising this aspect of the club but the guy who talks about us in public, is involved in hiring and firing managers and DOF, is involved with transfers (even if - and I am positive you are incorrect - he is merely paying for them) HASN'T been naive. Instead the CEO with less seniority, is completely culpable? Doesn't wash i'm afraid mate. Moshiri has shook up the club and his choices have been poor and, i repeat, extremely naive.

That's not to say he's solely responsible. The CEO, Walsh, Koeman... the list goes on.

I dunno, are you trying to be edgy here like with Martinez?
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I make no apologies to you or anyone else that I liked Martinez. If in your judgement, because it's minority, it has to be edgy and I am attempting to go against the grain for the sake of it, then that's your issue mate, not mine.
 

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