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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

it's difficult to reply to this without inviting the predictable lazy pile-on, but context is everything. He took over a mid table (at best) team, got them into Europe hit two plus 95 point (i think seasons) as well as three european finals before restoring them to mid table neatly.

sure the ambition levels are different to city's; but again if you offered any player, the owners, klopp or "fans" the hypothetical deal of a CL and PL, they would have jumped for joy.

They'd have taken the deal, but the point was more they haven't dominated, which they haven't. Even the Arsenal team of the late 90's won as many trophies in a single season as they've managed in 6 years under Klopp.

He's done well, but he is in the top 5 for Europe salaries wise. To not get beyond a 1/4 final and not finish in the top 2-3 of the league is pretty appalling. At any of the country sides in the top 5 (I believe City, Real Madrid or United) the manager would be chased. But thats big club mentality.
 

A team that spent world record fees on Goalkeepers and Defenders as well as spending the money they did on Keira, Jota etc. don’t have ambitions to match City’s? Nah I don’t buy it. Klopp has failed.

should have said "ambitions were different" (as in at time of appointment) apologies.
 
A team that spent world record fees on Goalkeepers and Defenders as well as spending the money they did on Keira, Jota etc. don’t have ambitions to match City’s? Nah I don’t buy it. Klopp has failed.

should have said "ambitions were different" (as in at time of appointment) apologies.
 
“Real Madrid, that’s an easy one, next question”.

“I think that’s Glasgow Rangers, these are easy questions”.

Was Genuinely laughing out loud at this

I love then bit where he says "I go 2 miles to the game". Like whats the achievement there? He seemed to be holding it up as if it were some long distance challenge or something.

I also loved how he went from "I've been to every game this season" when it was proved he patently he hadn't he quickly backtracked to "I went to some games". I bet if you dug a bit further he's probably been to the odd game here or there over the last 10 years. Probably stopped watching when Hodgson was there and only returned when they won the CL.

I mean Cundy and the other fella are complete whoppers, so you really have to go some to lose an argument to those two. And he somehow managed it.
 
Thiago - could be wrong, but I think it is indicitive of Klopp prioritising the top 4 ahead of Madrid. He played both league games

Jota - was absolute gash yesterday

That would be really bizarre as well though wouldn't it?

I mean 2nd leg maybe not, the game was all but done, but 1st leg, Madrid wobbling and missing all their key players, semi final against a Chelsea side who have hardly set the world alight this season or a terrible Porto. Why would you bin that chance? And why would you play Thiago in the games he's not suited to playing?
 

I think of bringing my youngfella to the match in a few years time; obviously not to that kind of toxic atmosphere, but it should be a good thing & should be welcoming the home team, not the away obviously

I think your priorities really change when you take your kids to the match. I remember my dad saying it to me, but didn't believe it. But you do all of a sudden. Suddenly behaviour you thought was excusable becomes extremely annoying. You start thinking outside of your own head. There's a lot of grown fella's in the crowd there. If you start lashing missiles it could hit anyone. If you've got anything about you, and you see a fella lashing a missile, he's going home in an ambulance. Not a single one of them seemed to have that bottle though. They just stood by and let him do it. Utter knobheads.
 
They'd have taken the deal, but the point was more they haven't dominated, which they haven't. Even the Arsenal team of the late 90's won as many trophies in a single season as they've managed in 6 years under Klopp.

He's done well, but he is in the top 5 for Europe salaries wise. To not get beyond a 1/4 final and not finish in the top 2-3 of the league is pretty appalling. At any of the country sides in the top 5 (I believe City, Real Madrid or United) the manager would be chased. But thats big club mentality.

Yeah - I think that is a fair summary overall. Done well overall, but this season obviously a shambles & for me it runs way deeper than injuries and crowds etc; he has made big errors. His management cost them in the first leg and his missmanagement of the CB injuries killed them as well.

On your second point, he has earned the right to avoid the sack this season, there are unusual circumstances, but as mentioned above, if form continues into next season ground will get very shaky very quickly for him
 
They'd have taken the deal, but the point was more they haven't dominated, which they haven't. Even the Arsenal team of the late 90's won as many trophies in a single season as they've managed in 6 years under Klopp.

He's done well, but he is in the top 5 for Europe salaries wise. To not get beyond a 1/4 final and not finish in the top 2-3 of the league is pretty appalling. At any of the country sides in the top 5 (I believe City, Real Madrid or United) the manager would be chased. But thats big club mentality.

Yeah - I think that is a fair summary overall. Done well overall, but this season obviously a shambles & for me it runs way deeper than injuries and crowds etc; he has made big errors. His management cost them in the first leg and his missmanagement of the CB injuries killed them as well.

On your second point, he has earned the right to avoid the sack this season, there are unusual circumstances, but as mentioned above, if form continues into next season ground will get very shaky very quickly for him
 
That would be really bizarre as well though wouldn't it?

I mean 2nd leg maybe not, the game was all but done, but 1st leg, Madrid wobbling and missing all their key players, semi final against a Chelsea side who have hardly set the world alight this season or a terrible Porto. Why would you bin that chance? And why would you play Thiago in the games he's not suited to playing?

personally i would agree with you and I think he simply got it wrong first leg.
 
Yeah - I think that is a fair summary overall. Done well overall, but this season obviously a shambles & for me it runs way deeper than injuries and crowds etc; he has made big errors. His management cost them in the first leg and his missmanagement of the CB injuries killed them as well.

On your second point, he has earned the right to avoid the sack this season, there are unusual circumstances, but as mentioned above, if form continues into next season ground will get very shaky very quickly for him

Yes. I don't get the crowds thing. I saw old jughead from the Anfieldwrap was banging on about it, and someone said that every other team would benefit from home crowds too so it's not a net gain, and he just took a swig of his pint and went "yea well I don't give Sh** about your team so I don't care" and it was a bit like you've missed the entire point of what they are saying. It's not about you caring about the other teams, it's just that unless Liverpool are the only team allowed fans in, it's not going to be a big advantage.

I'm yet to see anything tangible to say they will benefit. You look at the home v away league table this season, and that to me would be the basis for how a team may do. They are about mid table for home v away results, which sort of suggests to me, they are about average. I look at ourselves, who are at the very bottom of home v away table and it's clear we have missed home fans far more (especially when you factor in we actually did very well with the few games we had fans in). It's actually something tangible and concrete you can point to, rather than vague opinions.

I saw something on the Athletic which said the players had had crisis meetings, and said that they were just a bit terrified with thepressure of playing with Anfield. You sort of think that if thats the case, fans being in will make it worse not better.

Sides have basically seen a system that works against them. Pack the box, give Arnold the ball and watch him give it away and sit deep. The forwards look over the hill to me, at 29 and nearly 30 that sort of makes sense. Salah is likely to go the other way soon as well. In honesty, the way games have gone for them, hammering at the front door and getting no joy, the fans would have been a hindrance for them. Even that Villa game, with the edginess of the crowd, they probably don't win that. Arnold can do what he does, scoring a great goal, because it's like a training match. WIth fans in, I'm not sure that he will take the shot on, with the pressure on.

As for Klopp,I mean it's hard to say he deserves to go per se. There's obviously a big thing that he's the only person in 32 years to win them a title.A lot of that is Liverpool underachieving though. I doubt you will find a club anywhere in the world who have won just 1 league title. With inflation adjusted, they've probably spent tens of billions on wages and fees more than everyone else to win 1 league. Its a huge thing for them, but it shouldn't be. I look at it and say, is it bigger than Ranieri winning it for Leicester? No. Is it bigger than Mourinho winning it for Chelsea for their 1st time in 50 odd years? No. Neither of those managers survived.

I'm not sure he turns it around. It reminds me of a stockprice that has broken all support levels. Nobody knows what will happen, but it's never a very good sign.
 

personally i would agree with you and I think he simply got it wrong first leg.

But you're saying different things there. On the one hand your saying he junked the game for the top 4, but the other saying he got the game plan wrong. If he wasn't interested in the CL, he didn't get it wrong did he? He won the key game in the league.
 
Yes. I don't get the crowds thing. I saw old jughead from the Anfieldwrap was banging on about it, and someone said that every other team would benefit from home crowds too so it's not a net gain, and he just took a swig of his pint and went "yea well I don't give Sh** about your team so I don't care" and it was a bit like you've missed the entire point of what they are saying. It's not about you caring about the other teams, it's just that unless Liverpool are the only team allowed fans in, it's not going to be a big advantage.

I'm yet to see anything tangible to say they will benefit. You look at the home v away league table this season, and that to me would be the basis for how a team may do. They are about mid table for home v away results, which sort of suggests to me, they are about average. I look at ourselves, who are at the very bottom of home v away table and it's clear we have missed home fans far more (especially when you factor in we actually did very well with the few games we had fans in). It's actually something tangible and concrete you can point to, rather than vague opinions.

I saw something on the Athletic which said the players had had crisis meetings, and said that they were just a bit terrified with thepressure of playing with Anfield. You sort of think that if thats the case, fans being in will make it worse not better.

Sides have basically seen a system that works against them. Pack the box, give Arnold the ball and watch him give it away and sit deep. The forwards look over the hill to me, at 29 and nearly 30 that sort of makes sense. Salah is likely to go the other way soon as well. In honesty, the way games have gone for them, hammering at the front door and getting no joy, the fans would have been a hindrance for them. Even that Villa game, with the edginess of the crowd, they probably don't win that. Arnold can do what he does, scoring a great goal, because it's like a training match. WIth fans in, I'm not sure that he will take the shot on, with the pressure on.

As for Klopp,I mean it's hard to say he deserves to go per se. There's obviously a big thing that he's the only person in 32 years to win them a title.A lot of that is Liverpool underachieving though. I doubt you will find a club anywhere in the world who have won just 1 league title. With inflation adjusted, they've probably spent tens of billions on wages and fees more than everyone else to win 1 league. Its a huge thing for them, but it shouldn't be. I look at it and say, is it bigger than Ranieri winning it for Leicester? No. Is it bigger than Mourinho winning it for Chelsea for their 1st time in 50 odd years? No. Neither of those managers survived.

I'm not sure he turns it around. It reminds me of a stockprice that has broken all support levels. Nobody knows what will happen, but it's never a very good sign.

the crowd thing is definitely a factor for everyone, the overall results back that up, with way less home wins than the averaged over a good period of time. You have a strong sample size of data as well.

What I dont buy is the "it effects liverpool more" that is tripe, but it is another straw to clutch at when things are bad, which is a natural behaviour. Next season will obviously tell, my gut feeling is they will continue the post christmas form, it is too long a period to be a "blip" but there is the possibility they go the other way and they get back on the proverbial horse. Personally I think that's a long shot
 
But you're saying different things there. On the one hand your saying he junked the game for the top 4, but the other saying he got the game plan wrong. If he wasn't interested in the CL, he didn't get it wrong did he? He won the key game in the league.

big difference between less of a priority and not interested though mate - im sure he still wanted to win v RM, but if you look at thiago who probably doesnt have the legs for 4 games in 11 days or whatever he felt the most efficient way of using him was in the league.
 
I hope Salah stays to be honest, dont want someone giving them £100+ mill to re-invest. He has 2 years left, has been flogged the last 3 years and wont sustain the levels over the last few seasons. Plus he is in the last 2 years of his contract this summer.

They need to replace Wijnaldum badly, Firmino is done and Mane is on his way down too - lets hope they all play another season.
 
They'd have taken the deal, but the point was more they haven't dominated, which they haven't. Even the Arsenal team of the late 90's won as many trophies in a single season as they've managed in 6 years under Klopp.

He's done well, but he is in the top 5 for Europe salaries wise. To not get beyond a 1/4 final and not finish in the top 2-3 of the league is pretty appalling. At any of the country sides in the top 5 (I believe City, Real Madrid or United) the manager would be chased. But thats big club mentality.

It’s an unusual quirk of the prem. at Bayern, PSG, Juve, Madrid, Barca two seasons of failing to make it past the CL quarter finals probably gets you fired no matter who you are.

In the prem however Guardiola has gone 4 seasons in a row not doing this but obviously winning the prem is such a big deal that it would be unimagineable to fire him for it. Similarly Klopp is lauded for his previous work but in any of the clubs above he’d be facing the sack. So would Solskjaer, so would Arteta, so would Mourinho. It’s only really Chelsea who behave like a big club, if Tuchel fails to win the title or CL next season he probably doesn’t get his contract renewed similar to how Ancelotti got fired by them.
 

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