Yarrgh
Player Valuation: £70m
He'll be taking a photo on his ipad for Instagram.
ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3
- Thread starter cronullasharks
- Start date
Tipp blue
If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
joe1878
Player Valuation: £1.5m
I cant remember his name, but the fella on the left snarling like some kind of enforcer has sent me over the edge hahaJust watched it again and remembered how bad it was. The highlight was:
"Imagine if your family... Which is what Liverpool football club is to most people, especially the real fans who go home and away. That's... It's their family. It's like you are raping all of them... at once, over a long period of time and getting away with it."
Where do you even begin with a quote like that?
JelavicBrate2
Player Valuation: £10m
Honestly they are an absolute joke, absolute divvies the lot of them. This is the thing about the RS, they've never actually struggled in a long time. We've been rubbish for the last 6 years, ever since Martinez's first season, the RS only had a slightly bad time under Hodgson and plus Moyes would often start a season like that and claw things back for a respectable finish.
Even then they still were doing alright in the Europa League and sacking Hodgson didn't do anything really, they were pretty poor under KKKenny as well. They really are the most entitled fanbase in the country, United fans at least have their old school fans from the 1970s and 1980s who remember when they were rubbish. They really can't tolerate losing, this is why they always fight with one another when the lose, they disappear whenever they lose.
As I've pointed out to other people on here with the exception of a few months under Hodgson and struggling under Rodgers they've been pretty good recently, they don't have anything to complain about really. You had Klopp out graffiti around Melwood in 2016/2017, all this nonsense about being loyal supporters, they're an absolute joke. A few years ago, they even offered free tickets with any adult ticket against Utrecht and they still couldn't fill Anfield. That video is just a typical example of the RS being weirdos, what type of moron would compare having a poor start to the season with their family being raped?
Good post but not sure about the bit in bold.
helpimonfire
Player Valuation: £35m
The Everton thread on Rawk is back up and running with posts now that we have lost a game
It seems that the league is false as it is in a freak season, and that Everton are in the position that they are due cheating, biased refs, luck and violence. But it is OK as they will win the CL anyway.
Aw bless
It seems that the league is false as it is in a freak season, and that Everton are in the position that they are due cheating, biased refs, luck and violence. But it is OK as they will win the CL anyway.
Aw bless
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
Because their manager has run them into the ground.
Zatara
Player Valuation: £100m
It's the Borussia Dortmund dip all over again for Jurgen Klopp
After Liverpool fell to their sixth straight home defeat last weekend, Jurgen Klopp was asked whether this was his lowest point in management. 'I wish to say no, but yes it is,' he replied.
@catcherintherye and so it begins...
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
Sorry mate got crazy busy with work yesterday afternoon/evening, meant to come back earlier.
The injuries point is fair. There's no doubt they have been hit by injuries and they have been very focussed in a certain area. All I would say is;
1) They have been lucky with injuries before, so you are seeing some mean regression
2) I don't think those injured players all come back and are perfect again like a switch (particularly the long term ones)
3) The league has had lots of injuries. We are top in one key indicator. They are not top in any indicators
4) In honesty, the area that has been affected- CB/Defence they have actually done ok. The goals against has remained steady, whatever partnership they've used. The issue they have is further up the field, where players who haven't been injured affect has fallen away.
On your wider point, I have no doubt Klopp will try that tact. To be honest, if you get to that point, where you're having to write off half a season because of some injuries to one position of your team you are finished really. The players have their excuse, and that desire to sacrifice that bit extra to get to the top has gone. I'm not sure it can be flicked back on again. It probably took 3 years to get that mindset, and they will likely be starting from a lower base than when Klopp arrived. Ultimately, it won't be recovered in a summer, especially one where players will be playing in an international tournament, and the likelihood is restrictions remain.
I think as I have said, I do expect some recovery, but it's probably a 50/50 guess. Klopp is a big wildcard, and it was recognised by him and Dortmund he couldn't turn the ship around there (and that was after, frankly he had shown he had began turning it around in the 2nd half of that season). So even with that evidence, both decided it was a repreive. The chances are, the dip continues, and maybe worsens if Klopp stays. I'm not saying it's certain, but there's good equity.
It reminds me a bit of Spurs under Pochettino. Liverpool got around 15% higher points than Spurs, but suffered a very similar dip from a high point. In truth, there's probably an arguement now that Liverpool's dip is probably even sharper than Spurs and they may land at a lower point. Spurs gambled on an instant bounce back with Mourinho,and relative for them a tonne of money to help the process, and while there has certainly been a bounce back it's nowhere near peak levels. They will likely finish 6/7th in the league in the low 60's.
Certainly over the next season or 2, I'd say that eas about the best case scenario for Liverpool. A 40% increase on where they land, that continues into a following season as well. It will be high mid 70's, enough for CL but little else.
1) Agreed
2) 100% agreed - this is probably the most important point in any bounce back debate
3) Disagree - they have missed the most days to injury & the most match (PL) appearances due to injury. Both very similar stats & the most telling, despite it ignoring the compounded nature of their injury list. They have double the average in both metrics compared to league in totality
4) I'm not so sure, I think it's an easy argument to say, they havent conceded that many goals; so therefore defence has been ok, but the reality for them is their full backs and MF have both massively struggled without the platform offered by their defence. Tons of variables for this, including confidence, lack of Midfield & their triangles and so on and so on. What I do think will be one of Klopps biggest regrets from this season will be failing to back Nat Phillips from early doors & shoehorning MF's into CB, which with hindsight (as many argued at the time as well) was a stupid decision.
On the overarching point of the Klopp next move - I'd tend to agree; it's a hailmary play & I think it is unlikely he can reverse this seasons collapse, but I feel it is the only chance he has & there are more variables in his favour than Pochettino had. He can argue next year will be different with the return of the crowds, injuries, rest, pre season and simply civilization getting back to normal. Poch had none of these cards to play, players were tired & it was very hard for Poch to make a case for proper change. As an outsider looking in it does feel like everything together has hit them hard, they look downbeat, sad and feeling sorry for themselves. Covid is certainly not the cause of that, but it will take its toll when other things are tough.
In terms of predicting points totals, I appreciate it is your best guess and nothing more, but for me it is an impossible task, especially with no clue what their squad will look like. What we are seeing more and more is there is little correlation in results from one year to the next & there is no reason that will change, it could get worse. Simply look at Villa / West Ham for counter intuitive performances, there are countless of examples of +20 point swings in PL performance year on year and that trend seems to be growing rather than declining.
My guess is they are at the point, where they are praying they dont get Europa or the other tournament managing a lighter load with the hope of getting top 4 the next year, but that is of course risky business in itself.
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both points are correct
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
It's the Borussia Dortmund dip all over again for Jurgen Klopp
After Liverpool fell to their sixth straight home defeat last weekend, Jurgen Klopp was asked whether this was his lowest point in management. 'I wish to say no, but yes it is,' he replied.www.dailymail.co.uk
@catcherintherye and so it begins...
It's an interesting article. Especially as the comparisons are now being openly made in the main stream media. It's not just football obsessives who are saying it. What is also interesting is the pictures they are using, where Klopp looks slightly maniacal. I've always said, in terms of politics, you can tell a lot from pictures they choose to use about PM's and how they are viewed. The same is true for football managers as well. I know the Sky camera's have also cut to him looking confused and bewildered a few times. It's a big change from when they used to show him happy or goading the fans or whatever.
In terms of the substance, it's the same collapse but actually now more severe. The points dropped are already greater than in that season from Dortmund. The key bit, is sides just work out the system, and realised once they sit deep, there isn't really an easy answer. It echoes whats happened here over the last 12 months or so. The penny has dropped. If a side is organised and sits deep, they look pretty clueless as to how to break that side down.
We will never know what would have happened with Dortmund had he stayed, but what we do know is he chose to leave and Dortmund were very happy with that arrangement. Lots of noises at the time and since state, that even though there was a temporary turn around in the 2nd half of that season, the longer term damage was done and irrepearable. Some were worried he would take them down the following season.
While the heights Liverpool achieved were higher (in a relative European sense) and also within the league itself (they fell from clear champions to now mid table) whereas Dortmund the decline had already set in and really it just "sped up" in that final season. I think it makes it worse for Liverpool, it's more out of the blue, and probably takes more re-adjustment.
Any notion, that they can click their fingers and have it all working by August with that squad is for the birds. I'd also say, especially by the time the season ends, Klopp will be mortally wounded.
This could still collapse as well. They could end up with something dat like 9/10 points from the remaining games. Everyone is going to be eyeing them up as a bonus 3 points.
He and they are gone mate
Stick a fork in them they are done
As was said Steve Bruce would get sacked with that run of form
Their players have turned to [Poor language removed] ,they have no money and Klopp has no plan B
All hail Jordan for taking the knee
He has done football fans worldwide a massive favour
They spent over £80m in the summer
Superb, we all knew it would comeIt's the Borussia Dortmund dip all over again for Jurgen Klopp
After Liverpool fell to their sixth straight home defeat last weekend, Jurgen Klopp was asked whether this was his lowest point in management. 'I wish to say no, but yes it is,' he replied.
@catcherintherye and so it begins...
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