Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[Bruce Wayne]

The mighty Bruce Wayne, surrendering to 3,500 words? It took me 10 minutes.

And we both know that if I say it, you'll ignore it ; )

Rightio. Read the piece, thanks for sharing (you might enjoy Tightrope, the latest book by Nick Kristoff incidentally). The article is interesting, but I'm not sure how it disputes what I said. As an avid subscriber, I'm sure you read the Economist article this week highlighting that most non-degree holders voted Tory at the last election, with degree holders typically voting Labour. That's a clear inversion of the typical 'right wing for the rich, left wing for the poor' narrative, and neither the article you shared or Tightrope really explain why so many working class people are voting for politicians whose policies don't really help them.

I get the point made in the article about needing local issues to come back into focus again, but that seems in line with treating these people like they matter rather than as objectionable dullards. Indeed, one of the accusations against Corbyn (not sure about the Democrats) was that he was too London centric and didn't care for or understand the regions much.

For many, all the “big plan” stuff, even if it actually addresses the things that affect their lives, sounds like liberals far away trying to tell them how to live. Trump gets that. Democrats seem not to.

Seems to describe Corbynism to a tee. It seems wholly unlikely, but I do wonder if we're not actually in agreement

 

[abelard]

and neither the article you shared or Tightrope really explain why so many working class people are voting for politicians whose policies don't really help them.

Ha! A further sign we probably all see what we believe. The article absolutely does explain this, quite well in my view. And it suggests that contra the author's friend from San Francisco - "They all just need to die off, the racists just need to die off" - (which is why I thought of this article after reading your post), there actually is a good deal of room for understanding and accommodation, if we take the time to listen long enough to get beneath the surface.

True, there is no doubt, not least after 2019, that one of the biggest challenges the left faces is that people in deprived areas have mostly had their faith in government beaten out of them (Credit where it's due: your team has played a brilliant innings here - arguably even too well, given they brought us Brexit).

But, the article shows, by taking the time to actually get to know people (ie: longer than the halftime queue for lager at a Wigan Rugby League match) it becomes clear that most people who vote against our their interests (or at least, against our interests) are not deplorables or racists, as you suggest in the post I quoted. For example: "One woman wrote, 'I don’t mind giving DACA kids help as long as it’s after every single legal citizen receives help including all the homeless veterans. Take care of citizens first.'”

Granted, it is much easier for the left to reconcile itself to 'taking care of citizens' than it is for the Economist editorial board.

Anyhow, to get the thread back on topic, Trump: Bad folks. Very bad.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Ha! A further sign we probably all see what we believe. The article absolutely does explain this, quite well in my view. And it suggests that contra the author's friend from San Francisco - "They all just need to die off, the racists just need to die off" - (which is why I thought of this article after reading your post), there actually is a good deal of room for understanding and accommodation, if we take the time to listen long enough to get beneath the surface.

True, there is no doubt, not least after 2019, that one of the biggest challenges the left faces is that people in deprived areas have mostly had their faith in government beaten out of them (Credit where it's due: your team has played a brilliant innings here - though if anything too well, given that it ended in Brexit).

But, the article shows, by taking the time to actually get to know people (ie: longer than the halftime queue for lager at a Wigan Rugby League match) it becomes clear that most people who vote against our their interests (or at least, against our interests) are not deplorables or racists, as you suggest in the post I quoted.

For example: "One woman wrote, 'I don’t mind giving DACA kids help as long as it’s after every single legal citizen receives help including all the homeless veterans. Take care of citizens first.'”

Granted, it is much easier for the left to reconcile itself to 'taking care of citizens first' than it is for the Economist editorial board.

Anyhow, to get the thread back on topic, Trump: Bad folks. Very bad.

It'd be nice if you afforded me the same courtesy you afford people you've never met, and look for such a bridge, but anyway. Have a read of Tightrope some time. Kristoff bases it in his home town (although does obviously use other parts of America too), and its just as 'left behind' as the town your New Your Books guy has lived in for a bit, and just as with your journo, he is extremely sympathetic to the plight of the inhabitants, and broadly argues that the system has massively let them down. I didn't think we were debating that point at all, but rather whether Trump's policies had actually helped people in Locktown (or Yamhill), and if not, what is it about Trump (or Farage, or Johnson) that so appeals to these communities? What is it about their personalities and their demeanour that encourage communities to vote for them? Unless you're suggesting that Trump is actually helping all those homeless veterans that the lady suggests are so important to her?

It's a shame that the constant jibes about the Economist are trotted out, as I've said repeatedly in the EU thread that more should have been done to help communities adapt to changes in their population (there are EU funds that support that that the government choose to ignore - it seems apparent why they do that now). Through my work it's something I've championed for some time too, both in the UK and across Europe.

I'd be more supportive of your approach if you had actually managed to reach out to any of the small fishes swimming in our own Petri dish here on GOT. There are numerous familiar faces across the various topics here whose opinions jar with your own natural disposition, and had you managed to extend the olive branch to at least one of them with your approach then I'd be more inclined to believe you that you've found the 'third way', but instead you're just talking at people just like the rest of us are, with the odd DHolliday like comment thrown in for good measure about Trump or Brexit not being 'all' bad.

 

[Prevenger17]

I'd be more supportive of your approach if you had actually managed to reach out to any of the small fishes swimming in our own Petri dish here on GOT. There are numerous familiar faces across the various topics here whose opinions jar with your own natural disposition, and had you managed to extend the olive branch to at least one of them with your approach then I'd be more inclined to believe you that you've found the 'third way', but instead you're just talking at people just like the rest of us are

I think Abe just finds it hard to slow his high horse down at full gallop, I wouldn't take it personally

 

[verreauxi]

More outright racism and xenophobia from the racist Trump administration and the xenophobic racist base who let this stuff happen.

The United States Has a Deadbeat Leader, So We Won't Be Paying Our Debts

The latest to get stiffed with the check are the Hmong, whose Arkansas football dynasty I wrote about a few years back.

www.esquire.com

 

[RAFUH]

 

[summerisle]

Excellent as always.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Drain the swamp seems to have morphed into drain the jails of the swamp creatures.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Trump declares himself "The chief law enforcement officer"... Aah the sweet smell of the separation of powers burning.

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[tsubaki]

more here - https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...d-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

I suppose the big question is whether this is true or not - I mean on the one hand Trump could hardly come out and say "and it was nothing to do with Russia after all" given his previous comments, the Trump Tower meeting etc, and on the other its a really bizarre thing for someone fighting extradition to make, that the country seeking extradition isn't going to punish him.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Lots of people making foreign policy offers/threats and deals that Trump claims to know nothing about when they come to light.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Any bets on how quickly he gets pardoned?

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Any bets on how quickly he gets pardoned?

What was the original recommendation from the DOJ, and what was the revised recommendation?

 

[LinekersLegs]

What was the original recommendation from the DOJ, and what was the revised recommendation?

iirc was 7-9 years and then the revised was around 4.

ironically whilst in the court the new DOJ guy seemed to go back to supporting the original, harsher, guidelines