Current Affairs Does democracy work?

[Bruce Wayne]

There's an interesting piece in the New Yorker about democracy, and in particular how effective it is in a world in which so many voters seem so ignorant of the things they've voting for.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/07/the-case-against-democracy

"around a third of Americans are incapable of naming even one of the three branches of the United States government. Fewer than a quarter know who their senators are, and only half are aware that their state has two of them."

I'm sure we can think of many examples from this side of the pond too. Does democracy fail in the face of such ignorance?

 

[orchard]

Education's the first failure Bruce.

 

[Kurt.]

There's an interesting piece in the New Yorker about democracy, and in particular how effective it is in a world in which so many voters seem so ignorant of the things they've voting for.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/07/the-case-against-democracy

"around a third of Americans are incapable of naming even one of the three branches of the United States government. Fewer than a quarter know who their senators are, and only half are aware that their state has two of them."

I'm sure we can think of many examples from this side of the pond too. Does democracy fail in the face of such ignorance?

Half of Americans don't even know what day it is to start with.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Education's the first failure Bruce.

But does that negate the virtues of democracy, or is there a wisdom of crowds thing going on where the outlandish negate one another to produce a reasonably wise consensus?

 

[Walken]

Does democracy exist might be a more relevant question

 

[orchard]

I wouldn't put much hope in a crowd solution, each individual needs to be educated well to prevent such things, that's the whole point to it really, otherwise an elected oligarchy, or tyranny may be preferable. But like @Walken asked, where are these democracy's, and most diluted ones are actively subverted.

But does that negate the virtues of democracy, or is there a wisdom of crowds thing going on where the outlandish negate one another to produce a reasonably wise consensus?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I wouldn't put much hope in a crowd solution, each individual needs to be educated well to prevent such things, that's the whole point to it really, otherwise an elected oligarchy, or tyranny may be preferable. But like @Walken asked, where are these democracy's, and most diluted ones are actively subverted.

As the article says however, political ignorance has remained stable despite education levels rising considerably in the past few decades.

 

[orchard]

As the article says however, political ignorance has remained stable despite education levels rising considerably in the past few decades.

Education in what Bruce? The Ancients also realised that leisure time was important for developing man, a political (inclusive of ethics) animal, that's also being reduced and further diluted by entertainment/distractions.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Education in what Bruce? The Ancients also realised that leisure time was important for developing man, a political (inclusive of ethics) animal, that's also being reduced and further diluted by entertainment/distractions.

Education in general. Number of degrees, general number of years of education across the population etc. It isn't education in politics/economics and so on.

 

[orchard]

I knew what was intended Bruce, I was prompting you to think about it, and realise most is purely vocational.

Even in academic circles, i've witnessed a medical prof. lament that he regrets not being particularly well rounded.

Education in general. Number of degrees, general number of years of education across the population etc. It isn't education in politics/economics and so on.

 

[deipnosophist]

USA has become a land of political (and social) bread and circus. It's 'empire' is on its last legs.
What was once said about the USSR ('a third rate nation with first rate weaponry') is now true of USA.

Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold.

The Constitutional Republic that is USA is hollowing itself out with each passing day...

....and the rest of the world knows it.

 

[jaycee]

It certainly works for business and the powerful,I doubt it has any real effect on the general population

 

[terry nodder]

Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold.

Ooh nice quote, bet that's lost on some o f the undeucated masses in here, apart from Bungle or someone who'd make a crack about his "second cumming"

Cheers

 

[Boss_Blue]

Education in general. Number of degrees, general number of years of education across the population etc. It isn't education in politics/economics and so on.

In my experience though Bruce, a significant amount of academics lack common sense.

The stupidest people I know were met at university.

 

[The Cowboy]

The biggest problem we have in this country is the idea of voting for your PM vs voting for your local MP. If the system was different and the focus was squarely on the local MP, I think folk would be a lot more engaged, as it would more directly affect them.

imo my MP speaks for me and my constituency in parliament. There should be no referenda - the MP is my proxy vote, whatever they vote for speaks for the whole constituency. If folk don't like that, vote for a different candidate.