Dithering Dave?

[Tubey]

Just came across an interesting stat from the latest set of EPL games.

The following is the times a substitution was made during the game.

Birmingham : 69, 82, 85
Man United: 73, 90
Man City: 58, 63, 77
Villa: 56, 56, 81
Stoke: 55, 69, 79
Fulham: NONE
Sunderland: 31, 58, 61
Blackpool: 19, 81, 81
Spurs: 46, 66, 72
Newcastle: 67, 79
West Brom: 66, 74
Blackburn: 46, 52, 82
West Ham: 34, 56, 85
Everton: 62, 90, 90

Whilst not exactly definitive (as some will be covering injuries and such), isn't it strange that in a game where Everton should have been chasing all three points that David Moyes did not make an attacking substitution earlier in the game, as every other manager in the league did?

Let's take Spurs for example; a steady rotation of substitutions whilst down to 10 men to keep the side fresh and alert. If you look at the general pattern, more or less every team (except Man Utd who made a timewasting sub in the 90th minute to protect a lead) gave a sub at least five minutes and more often ten to make an impact on the game - Everton were the odd one out.

All slating of Moyes aside, is it a case of "dithering" tactically to change things up, or is Moyes genuinely convinced the side he has out is enough come rain or shine?

 

[ricardobee]

eh?
:blink:

 

[robbo1957]

Just came across an interesting stat from the latest set of EPL games.

The following is the times a substitution was made during the game.




Whilst not exactly definitive (as some will be covering injuries and such), isn't it strange that in a game where Everton should have been chasing all three points that David Moyes did not make an attacking substitution earlier in the game, as every other manager in the league did?

Let's take Spurs for example; a steady rotation of substitutions whilst down to 10 men to keep the side fresh and alert. If you look at the general pattern, more or less every team (except Man Utd who made a timewasting sub in the 90th minute to protect a lead) gave a sub at least five minutes and more often ten to make an impact on the game - Everton were the odd one out.

All slating of Moyes aside, is it a case of "dithering" tactically to change things up, or is Moyes genuinely convinced the side he has out is enough come rain or shine?

Didn't Birmingham score in the 89th minute? How was a 90th minute sub protecting a lead?

Newcastle 1 down so didn't make a sub until 67 minute? Not chasing a point? 2nd sub just 2 mins before Spurs scored their 2nd goal. Good sub chasing a point cost a goal.

West Brom didn't make theirs until 66 min? Was that to keep the score to just 3-1?

Stoke 2-0 down after 10 mins but waited until 55 min to make a change?

Sunderland made 3 subs ? 1st defender for a defender. 2nd a 2 whole mins before "dithering Dave" and the 3rd 6 whole mins after. None effected the result.

Villa all the subs when they were already 4-0 down. Tactically aware.

So is "dithering Dave" worse than all those listed we got a point they only other one to get anything was Utd.

 

[Matt Damon]

Didn't Birmingham score in the 89th minute? How was a 90th minute sub protecting a lead?

Newcastle 1 down so didn't make a sub until 67 minute? Not chasing a point? 2nd sub just 2 mins before Spurs scored their 2nd goal. Good sub chasing a point cost a goal.

West Brom didn't make theirs until 66 min? Was that to keep the score to just 3-1?

Stoke 2-0 down after 10 mins but waited until 55 min to make a change?

Sunderland made 3 subs ? 1st defender for a defender. 2nd a 2 whole mins before "dithering Dave" and the 3rd 6 whole mins after. None effected the result.

Villa all the subs when they were already 4-0 down. Tactically aware.

So is "dithering Dave" worse than all those listed we got a point they only other one to get anything was Utd.

HOW'Z THAT!!!!!!!

Have to say lad.

You've just spanked this thread like England (& Wales) did the Convicts in Australia.

 

[ricardobee]

HOW'Z THAT!!!!!!!

Have to say lad.

You've just spanked this thread like England (& Wales) did the Convicts in Australia.

very much this.

do you have a stat for that BB?

 

[Muggins]

Watching it on telly, Moyes looked livid. Like no-one was doing what he told them to.

I still think West Ham were lucky with that goal. Hibbo very unlucky.

What peed me right off though, was when the West Ham goal went in....the attitude and body language. It was like we'd just let one in in the 94th minute and we'd had it.

If there was a GOT team and Tubey accidentally deflected one in, I wouldn't just throw my hands up in the air like "oh bleeding hell"...I'd think, it's early, theres time, Come on lads we can do this, and i'd jolly everyone up with a positive attitude, no-one put their arm round Hibbo and told him nevermind lid, now let's batter em...

in injury time, Fellaini was just wondering about taking his time. I thought, come on!!! a bit of haste. If i was representing the blues, i'd run til I was dead.

It's like the team lost the desire to win over Christmas. I want that spirit we saw at City the other week.

In fact I DEMAND that!!!

 

[Tubey]

HOW'Z THAT!!!!!!!

Have to say lad.

You've just spanked this thread like England (& Wales) did the Convicts in Australia.

Sad person.

And no, he didn't.

If the Man Utd sub was after the equaliser, fair enough, but all those other examples are a case of a side trying to alter a game.

Newcastle - sub has 23 minutes to impact upon the game. Exactly 22 minutes more than Bilyaletdinov had. The 2nd sub had no bearing on a goal being conceded which can happen at any point in the game. The aim was to chase the goal; at least the manager had an aim.

West Brom & Stoke - I'm not saying make a sub as soon as you concede a goal, but at least give them time to impact the game. 24 and 35 minutes respectively is good enough.

Sunderland - The 2nd and 3rd subs came on roughly the same time as Moyes' first, so you're not comparing like with like and being disingenuous.

Villa - Dead rubber when beaten.


Fact is, in every game where something was left to play for, a manager made a change with the aim to impact the game with a substantial amount of time left. David Moyes didn't.

 

[Muggins]

I think he put Bily on in injury time to get an extra 30seconds, hoping we'd do our trademark bombardment of the opposition goal. Why else? it was clear it was too little too late.

I've gotta take my hat off to Bily though, no moaning, no bad quotes about joining other clubs, just got on with it...

i've gotta admit I was very suprised with the team selection. I said to my missus "we've got 3 strikers on the bench??", her response...."How you gonna score then???"....my response..."Errr....Cahill???"...

Come on Everton, make me happy again...

 

[Tubey]

I think he put Bily on in injury time to get an extra 30seconds, hoping we'd do our trademark bombardment of the opposition goal. Why else? it was clear it was too little too late.

I've gotta take my hat off to Bily though, no moaning, no bad quotes about joining other clubs, just got on with it...

i've gotta admit I was very suprised with the team selection. I said to my missus "we've got 3 strikers on the bench??", her response...."How you gonna score then???"....my response..."Errr....Cahill???"...

Come on Everton, make me happy again...

We actually had four believe it or not - Beckford, Saha, Yakubu and Baxter xD

Agree with you on Bily. I personally don't think he's good enough, but I can't really judge it definitively as I've hardly seen the bloke play in one and a half seasons at Everton!

I think the Bily sub was partially due to a minor injury to Arteta but not fully - I honestly believe he was wasting time to take an away point at West Ham.

 

[The Holy Trinity]

I think he put Bily on in injury time to get an extra 30seconds, hoping we'd do our trademark bombardment of the opposition goal. Why else? it was clear it was too little too late.

I've gotta take my hat off to Bily though, no moaning, no bad quotes about joining other clubs, just got on with it...

i've gotta admit I was very suprised with the team selection. I said to my missus "we've got 3 strikers on the bench??", her response...."How you gonna score then???"....my response..."Errr....Cahill???"...

Come on Everton, make me happy again...

Can your mrs have a chat with Davie about thr striker situ as it's clear he doesn't understand !!

 

[Muggins]

We actually had four believe it or not - Beckford, Saha, Yakubu and Baxter xD

Agree with you on Bily. I personally don't think he's good enough, but I can't really judge it definitively as I've hardly seen the bloke play in one and a half seasons at Everton!

I think the Bily sub was partially due to a minor injury to Arteta but not fully - I honestly believe he was wasting time to take an away point at West Ham.

Where was the spirit and fight last night???

That pees me off more than anything. Moyes can only pick the team good or bad in different peoples opinions.

The onus is on the players to go out there and grab the game by the scruff of the neck. I wasn't convinced they were trying as much as they could.

 

[Muggins]

Can your mrs have a chat with Davie about thr striker situ as it's clear he doesn't understand !!

I know, i felt embarassed.

 

[Matt Damon]

Sad person.

And no, he didn't.

If the Man Utd sub was after the equaliser, fair enough, but all those other examples are a case of a side trying to alter a game.

Newcastle - sub has 23 minutes to impact upon the game. Exactly 22 minutes more than Bilyaletdinov had. The 2nd sub had no bearing on a goal being conceded which can happen at any point in the game. The aim was to chase the goal; at least the manager had an aim.

West Brom & Stoke - I'm not saying make a sub as soon as you concede a goal, but at least give them time to impact the game. 24 and 35 minutes respectively is good enough.

Sunderland - The 2nd and 3rd subs came on roughly the same time as Moyes' first, so you're not comparing like with like and being disingenuous.

Villa - Dead rubber when beaten.


Fact is, in every game where something was left to play for, a manager made a change with the aim to impact the game with a substantial amount of time left. David Moyes didn't.

FACT IS Robbo's pulled your pants down quoting stats back at you.

Sad person indeed!

 

[robbo1957]

Sad person.

And no, he didn't.

If the Man Utd sub was after the equaliser, fair enough, but all those other examples are a case of a side trying to alter a game.

Newcastle - sub has 23 minutes to impact upon the game. Exactly 22 minutes more than Bilyaletdinov had. The 2nd sub had no bearing on a goal being conceded which can happen at any point in the game. The aim was to chase the goal; at least the manager had an aim.

West Brom & Stoke - I'm not saying make a sub as soon as you concede a goal, but at least give them time to impact the game. 24 and 35 minutes respectively is good enough.

Sunderland - The 2nd and 3rd subs came on roughly the same time as Moyes' first, so you're not comparing like with like and being disingenuous.

Villa - Dead rubber when beaten.


Fact is, in every game where something was left to play for, a manager made a change with the aim to impact the game with a substantial amount of time left. David Moyes didn't.

I forgot you know why subs are made and be them for the right reason?

"Dithering Dave" brought the Yak on with 28 mins to go for the wrong reason. Went defensive!!

Newcastle why didn't Pardew go all out attack when they went down to 10 men?

West Brom & Stoke Yak subbed right in middle but just not good enough by "Dithering Dave"!!

Disingenuous but it was you who brought the stats into play so when they don't play the way you want they're disingenuous.

Why don't you just say Moyes out and stop making yourself look foolish.

I repeat what I said earlier you have stated before to know why the subs are made and at what time they should be made and even the reason the manager makes them. All I can say is you either be in the wrong job there will an be opening soon you should apply.

 

[little curly alan ball]

Just came across an interesting stat from the latest set of EPL games.

The following is the times a substitution was made during the game.




Whilst not exactly definitive (as some will be covering injuries and such), isn't it strange that in a game where Everton should have been chasing all three points that David Moyes did not make an attacking substitution earlier in the game, as every other manager in the league did?

Let's take Spurs for example; a steady rotation of substitutions whilst down to 10 men to keep the side fresh and alert. If you look at the general pattern, more or less every team (except Man Utd who made a timewasting sub in the 90th minute to protect a lead) gave a sub at least five minutes and more often ten to make an impact on the game - Everton were the odd one out.

All slating of Moyes aside, is it a case of "dithering" tactically to change things up, or is Moyes genuinely convinced the side he has out is enough come rain or shine?

You REALLY WON'T LET THIS LIE , eh , Bright-Spark ...???