No David. Martinez inherited a substantially better team and had us going the wrong way in the table. Moyes inherited scraps that you assured us only Dyche could save us with and has us moving up the table in less than a year. You’re funny.
Complete bunkum from start to finish.
All good, but let's remember the "Everton in the Premier League era" is a very low bar indeed.
Are you seriously saying that Moyes mk2 inherited a better team than Martinez did from Moyes part 1?
Season | Goals Conceded | League Rank |
| 2013–14 | 39 | 3rd-best defence |
**2014–15 | 50 | Mid-table** |
**2015–16 | 55 | 15th-best** |
a chart of his defensive decline,
a comparison to Moyes and Koeman, or
a narrative-style “case against Martínez” you can quote.Any suggestion that Martinez was a better Everton manager than Moyes doesnt pass the sniff test.Here are some damning, context-rich stats about Roberto Martínez’s time at Everton (2013–2016), framed around squad quality, where Everton started, and where they ended up:
Everton Before Martínez (Context / Starting Point)
Under David Moyes (2002–2013), Everton were:
- Consistently top-eight finishers (7 top-8 finishes in 8 seasons).
- Defensively elite: averaging 44 league goals conceded per season in Moyes’ last 5 seasons.
- Highly disciplined and structured, built around prime-age players (Baines, Jagielka, Coleman emerging; Fellaini; Pienaar; Osman; Howard).
- Financially stable but not extravagant—yet clearly overachieving.
Essentially: a top-7 club with a top-6 defensive record and a well-drilled identity.
Martínez’s First Season (2013–14) – The Peak Before the Collapse
It started brilliantly with a record points haul:
- 72 points – Everton’s highest-ever Premier League total.
- Only 39 goals conceded – still Moyes’ defensive structure.
- Baines–Coleman full-back peak, Lukaku on loan, Barkley breakout, prime Stones/Jagielka.
But this season increasingly looks like the illusion:
- 13 of the starting XI were the same players Moyes left, plus a loaned Lukaku.
- Expected goals against (xGA) trends already showed slippage in the second half of the season.
The Decline (2014–15 & 2015–16) – Where It All Fell Apart
1. Defensive collapse despite high-quality defenders
Martínez took a Moyes-built defence and turned it into one of the league’s leakiest:
This happened while fielding:
Season2013–14
39
3rd-best defence
**2014–15
50
Mid-table**
**2015–16
55
15th-best**
- Prime Baines
- Prime Coleman
- Prime Jagielka
- John Stones (one of the best young CBs in Europe)
No manager got less defensive output from more defensive talent than Martínez did in that period.
2. Massive underperformance vs. squad quality
The squad had Lukaku, Barkley, Deulofeu, Stones, Baines, Coleman, Mirallas, Naismith, McCarthy — on paper a genuine top-6 squad.
Yet Martinez delivered:
- 11th place in 2014–15
- 11th place in 2015–16
- Only 15 league wins across his final 50 PL games
For talent level, those finishes are among the worst underperformances in modern Everton history.
3. But the worst stat: leads blown
Martínez teams were notoriously fragile:
- Everton dropped 47 points from winning positions across his last two seasons.
- In 2015–16 alone:
- 22 points lost from leading positions
- Worst in the Premier League
This is the hallmark of a disorganised, naïve defensive structure.
4. A possession myth – sterile domination
Martínez often claimed Everton “controlled games,” but:
- Everton had the 3rd-highest possession in the league at times
- Yet finished with the 12th-best defence and bottom-half points return
Possession ≠ control → his possession was passive, sideways, and defensively costly.
5. Home form collapse (Goodison became easy)
Goodison, once one of the league’s most hostile grounds under Moyes, became:
- 11 home wins across his final 2 seasons combined
- Only 5 home wins in 2015–16
- Worst Everton home record in decades
Supporters turning on him became inevitable.
6. Cup runs masked league failure
Yes, Everton reached the 2016 FA Cup and League Cup semifinals…
…but in the league over the same period:
- Only 1 win in 10 league games before his sacking
- No clean sheet in the final 10 matches
Cup runs hid a near-total collapse of league competitiveness.
Ending Point vs Starting Point
Where Martínez Found Everton (2013)
- Top-7 club
- Elite defence
- Hard to beat
- Cohesive, disciplined squad
- Clear identity
Where He Left Them (2016)
- Back-to-back 11th-place finishes
- One of the worst defensive records in the league
- Dressing room fractured
- Fans openly hostile
- Key talents wanting out (Lukaku, Stones)
- Identity demolished
He inherited a high-floor, stable club and left it unstable, defensively broken, and mentally fragile.
Summary: The Most Damning Line
Roberto Martínez took Everton from their highest-ever Premier League points tally to their worst defensive record in decades within 24 months — despite having one of the strongest squads the club had in the 21st century.
If you want, I can also compile:
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