Corruption or big team bias

[JelavicBrate2]

Do you think referees have a subconscious bias towards big clubs or do you think you have genuine corruption in Premier League and UEFA competitions? Did Everton get favourable decisions in the eighties? With regards to Clattenburgs performance in derby and Rodris handball, I don't think you can argue those decisions were not corrupt.

 

[Firhillfill]

I'd be really surprised if there are systemic levels of corruption going on in the PGMOL, though I wouldn't be massively surprised if it comes out in future years that there are isolated incidents (given the money involved).

For the most part I think it's gross incompetence and unconscious (or sometimes concious) bias. Mike Dean is a bell, but his insight into how he would have refereed matches and decision making process tells you all you need to know about the inner workings, there is no even playing field.

 

[Bedfordblue]

Primary reasons for the poor officiating imho are

1. Individual incompetence
2. Unconscious bias
3. Conscious bias
4. Implied narratives leading to bias*
5. Collective protectionism with in the PMGOL

By 4 I’m mean the likes of Sky and the EPL coordinating with the PMGOL to exert influence on them for the good of ‘the product’
Doesn’t mean it’s overt or blatant, but I truly believe behind the scenes some clubs / players are discussed in a negative light and others in a more positive light, which in turn can affect decision making.

 

[Bedfordblue]

Do you think referees have a subconscious bias towards big clubs or do you think you have genuine corruption in Premier League and UEFA competitions? Did Everton get favourable decisions in the eighties? With regards to Clattenburgs performance in derby and Rodris handball, I don't think you can argue those decisions were not corrupt.

Would love to know what actually went on with Clattenberg in Moyes days.

 

[Eggs]

….i genuinely think Clattenburg was ‘iffy’, beyond that there’s at least a subconscious bias.

Graham Poll says his first game at Old Trafford was United v Everton and there was an absolute stonewall penalty for the Toffees but he didn’t give it. He knew it was a clear penalty, the Everton players were shouting at him as play continued but to this day he doesn’t know why he didn’t give it (I think it might might have been him who blew the whistle when Hutchinson scored in a Derby).

 

[PhilM]

….i genuinely think Clattenburg was ‘iffy’, beyond that there’s at least a subconscious bias.

Graham Poll says his first game at Old Trafford was United v Everton and there was an absolute stonewall penalty for the Toffees but he didn’t give it. He knew it was a clear penalty, the Everton players were shouting at him as play continued but to this day he doesn’t know why he didn’t give it (I think it might might have been him who blew the whistle when Hutchinson scored in a Derby).

Indeed it was, and he's since admitted that it was a goal. For me, I think it's a mixture of subconscious bias and concern (ergo intimidation) by certain clubs.

It doesn't help that the PGMOL self-regulates and is a closed shop, but you can search up my many previous posts about their horrendous governance.

As @Bedfordblue said, the collective protectionism from within the referee union means they aren't held to any real account, so the errors continue over and over.

 

[Rudolf Hucker]

….i genuinely think Clattenburg was ‘iffy’, beyond that there’s at least a subconscious bias.

Graham Poll says his first game at Old Trafford was United v Everton and there was an absolute stonewall penalty for the Toffees but he didn’t give it. He knew it was a clear penalty, the Everton players were shouting at him as play continued but to this day he doesn’t know why he didn’t give it (I think it might might have been him who blew the whistle when Hutchinson scored in a Derby).

It was.

 

[Deulofeumygod]

I blame sky

 

[Eggs]

I blame sky

….referees have become more high-profile and I think most get carried away with their importance.

For me nothing is worst than referees leading the players onto the pitch and claiming the match ball. The game is about footballers, referees should come onto a pitch last. Sky even have a useless, incoherent Mike Dean on their live results show talking about VAR decisions. I remember last season when DCL disgracefully had a goal disallowed at Spurs, Dean said confidently, ‘no way will this be overturned’.

Where there’s big money and gambling in sport there’s usually corruption.

 

[Bryan+]

It’s unconscious bias. The legacies the successful clubs have built and the subsequent establishment that prop them up discourages any independence toward them.

 

[Ed_Winchester]

It’s unconscious bias. The legacies the successful clubs have built and the subsequent establishment that prop them up discourages any independence toward them.

I also think there’s an element of not screwing up one of the Sky 6 teams, because if the ref does, bang go their chances of getting a high profile game for a while or worse, get demoted to reffing in the Championship

 

[Marc bolan]

….referees have become more high-profile and I think most get carried away with their importance.

For me nothing is worst than referees leading the players onto the pitch and claiming the match ball. The game is about footballers, referees should come onto a pitch last. Sky even have a useless, incoherent Mike Dean on their live results show talking about VAR decisions. I remember last season when DCL disgracefully had a goal disallowed at Spurs, Dean said confidently, ‘no way will this be overturned’.

Where there’s big money and gambling in sport there’s usually corruption.

Remember few years back Jeff winter gave a few poor decisions against us & moyes confronted
Him after the game moyes said afterwards all winter was bothered about was his fake tan

 

[matty1878]

deffo only for the big clubs

but seems to be everything for them scum

 

[judge]

It's a combination of everything. I've heard (admittedly only anecdotally) that a well thought of ref in the lower leagues refused the 'promotion' to the Premier League because he wouldn't interpret the rules the way they wanted him to. I think it's reasonable to believe that the fouls that ref's don't give - for shirt pulling/pushing in the penalty box, those that they do give for lesser contact outside the box, is a result of the unspoken/unofficial rules given to them by the Premier League. I also suspect that they are told 'if in doubt, favour the big (money generating) teams'. This inevitably leads to unconcious bias. I alo believe that there is corruption - given the amount of money involved it would be incredibly naive to think otherwise (depite the knee-jerk denial of every one of the pundits - eg; those on the gravy train).
There's a lot of nonsense spouted about 'the ref letting the game flow' and 'keeping 11 v 11 on the pitch. That's not his job! His job is to enforce the rules.
Lasty (you'll be relieved to hear), i don't think that ref's should be laughing and joking with the players or on first name terms with them on the pitch. Rugby refs aren't. They'll call the captain over or say 'number 6 you are being penalised for....' - it lets players know (sublimally) who is in charge.

 

[Bluelenny1984]

Where there is vast amounts of money, there is most likely corruption.