Changing Perceptions

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Zatara said:
So we cant make offers for top players from rival teans like man city did when they were taken over?

Then basically all these articles in the press and ITKs saying we are signing amazing players actually means what...?

Ambition has no limit, if we are ambitious and supposedly can sign "anyone we want" like the press are saying then why not?
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Sorry mate but you have to have limits when you live in the real world. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the rs signing Southampton players. That's about the level we're at. We have to hope our management has better taste/luck in player recruitment.
Whereas in the past we were often being outgunned by the likes of Soton, Stoke, Sunderland and Newcastle, now we won't be. I think we're possibly more or less on the level of Spurs and the rs as far as direct spending power goes.
We're not on the level of City, Chelsea or Utd. Any journalist or itk who says otherwise is spouting bubbles.

We are ambitious, but our ambition, as far as being in the market for top players is concerned, has to be tempered by the reality of the situation. Our wealth is not umlimited.
 
McBain said:
1. I applaud you for your thread. But mate, Spud's want 100m for Kane alone.
2. 'Big signings' cost 'Very Big Money'. Ambition versus the reality.
3. Lots of surprise about Gibson. You mean in the media or on here? Have you read that thread?
4. The Press and ITK's. They say alot and it's always right? Is this up for debate?
5. Negative people on the Internet. Yes. As in life, reflected online. As is the Everton we've known for 25 years.
6. Calling people Kopites if they don't agree with you? No mate.
7. 'Some' Posters 'Claiming things'. Well take a picture of Kim K's bum and break the internet. That will always happen on a platform for free speech. Doesn't mean they're always right.

In my far off opinion, It feels to me like the last 10 years have laid the foundations for a cracking youth team to come through. The Moyes years didn't just steady the ship in the first team but right through the Club. It's been a frustrating time for us, a misfire with Martinez but yet I hope i wasn't the only one who noticed something in the last couple of games... the youngsters seemed to take me back to that Everton of old, I know you older fellers know what it was, a neat triangle, that burst of pace, that dogged determination and steel, a beautifully timed tackle mixed with flair which has been missing for a long time. The biggest move for me is to hold onto Lukaku, Stones and Barkley and build a team around them, and hope that the back room falls into place. Whatever happens from here on in, I know there is a generation coming through which we may not have seen in a long time, and that fills me with more hope than expensive moves in the Market.

Hope your feeling a bit better too lid.

x Mcb
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Thanks...on the road to recovery but takes forever.

Kopites comment was directed at pointless posts from people usint bad language for no reason or just writing one line if "abuse". Not those who disagree

My thinking was that if we are told that we are able to sign who we like (or at least have the money to do so) then id be in for Butland + those other England internationals. Thats what i would class as huge ambition. I didnt say it would be easy but thats the level we should be aiming for.

Gibson thread when i had a quick peek its full of amazed people...you simply dont resign someone who over their entire career can only play 12-15 games a season...especially if you have a number of better options.

For marketing and branding, you mention Kane may go for £100mil. Bear in mind Bale went for £85mil and hes one of the best in the world...lets say Kane was available at the same price...simplistically, sell Lukaku +£20mil = Kane. We could hypothetically buy him and butland and still habe £50mil left. Would it be worth it, i dont know...

It would certainly show ambition though.

We should be looking to spend whatever is necessary to improve the team and image of the squad and club.
 
Zatara said:
So, all the fanfair and we've ended up with Koeman and Gibson. Not exactly the statement i was hoping for (so far).

If we are looking to make a splash then rather than taking a manager off Southampton why dont we go after Spurs' top players?

The teams that usually win the league over the premier league era have always had English players and Man City immediately signed Milner, Barry and others before making pushes for the title.

We currently have 2 marketable stars (excluding lukaku) in Stones and Barkley. Its clear to me that we will be improving our marketing and seeking to improve our "Global Brand" with these two and other players.

What we've seen with Koeman is that money talks. For me, Spurs are in the same boat as Leicester just with better individuals and more money BUT can they compete consistently with Utd,Chelsea or City who can throw hundreds of millions around?

We apparently have a fortune to spend (in fact an ITK posted we could actually afford Messi if we wanted) so why not move on players who could raise our profile but also improve us as a team and massively weaken a couple of other teams?

A big statement for me would be to move for Jack Butland to go alongside Stones and Barkley as England Internationals.

At that point people start to take notice and we then put big money down for Eric Dier and Delle Alli. Additionally when Lukaku is sold we add some money and move for Kane.

That to me is massive ambition. The players all have at least 10 seasons in them and with Butland signed we would have 3 England Internationals + 3 more with the Spurs players. Perhaps they wouldnt (all) come but it would be an attraction to add up to 4 England players not only for branding, improving the team but also surely they would buy into this if the money and ambition were there?

So, if we do have massive money and want to change the clubs perception to become a global brand as well as achieving success then why not make huge moves like this and our money down to attract them?
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Don't listen to the doubters. Zat for manager!
 

Zatara said:
Thanks...on the road to recovery but takes forever.

Kopites comment was directed at pointless posts from people usint bad language for no reason or just writing one line if "abuse". Not those who disagree

My thinking was that if we are told that we are able to sign who we like (or at least have the money to do so) then id be in for Butland + those other England internationals. Thats what i would class as huge ambition. I didnt say it would be easy but thats the level we should be aiming for.

Gibson thread when i had a quick peek its full of amazed people...you simply dont resign someone who over their entire career can only play 12-15 games a season...especially if you have a number of better options.

For marketing and branding, you mention Kane may go for £100mil. Bear in mind Bale went for £85mil and hes one of the best in the world...lets say Kane was available at the same price...simplistically, sell Lukaku +£20mil = Kane. We could hypothetically buy him and butland and still habe £50mil left. Would it be worth it, i dont know...

It would certainly show ambition though.

We should be looking to spend whatever is necessary to improve the team and image of the squad and club.
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I think you are discussing two different things here mate.
1) the desire to make a statement/show ambition.
2) Finding the right players for Everton.

Obviously if money were no object then point 2 and point 1 can be a lot closer. We do have a finite amount of resources albeit a lot higher than before.

Tackling point 1 I am not overly worried about showing ambition. We know we are a big club and we don't need to take Harry Kane to prove that. We are not City or Chelsea for example who we trying to convince themselves as much as anyone else. I don't think it's Moshiri's method either, we will not become a side show going for Galiticos. Signings will be measures against getting the right players for Everton. It may not be as glamorous but it could well be effective.

Everton's strengths over the last 15 years have been team building, recruitment, scouting trading out and development of a youth academy. Our big weakness has been off the park marketing (and thus lack of finance). IF we add money to the original model we won't go a lot wrong. I can't see us discarding much of the good work done before.

As regards Kane he is no doubt a very good player. Do you consider him a 100 million pound player. We will have to pay a huge premium because of Tottenhams reluctance to let him go. I saw him yesterday and he didn't look a 100 million pound player. Thats not to knock him on 1 game but to say he obviously fits a system at Spurs that brings the best out of him. If we were going to sign someone for 100 million pounds why not make a play for Bale?

I think smart recruitment will be key. A lot of that will need to be done abroad. That will leave us with the difficulty of having an English core or lack of one which I agree is important. It is worth noting though, much of the benefit of an English core is when players are made/developed by your club, not bought. It's why we need to continue to strengthen our academy. I also think signing English players who are not wanted by their clubs could be a profitable market.

I'd take Harry Kane. I think he is a similar level to Lukaku (I actually think Lukaku's ceiling is higher which will play out at this Euro's) but he is more consistent. I'm not sure he's the right player though at that price.

I also think we need to show ambition, but we don't need to fall over ourselves trying to do so. Get things right on the pitch, off the pitch, get the stadium right etc and that will soon start showing our ambition. The biggest show of ambition next season will be finishing in the top 5. Signing big name players is how Newcastle did things and for reasons mention above it just doesn't work.

Lets go and get players who want to join. There will be plenty. Jansen has still not signed for Spurs and Milik looks useful, there are 2 we can have instantly. Move Kone on and make Lukaku have to fight for his place!
 
catcherintherye said:
I think you are discussing two different things here mate.
1) the desire to make a statement/show ambition.
2) Finding the right players for Everton.

Obviously if money were no object then point 2 and point 1 can be a lot closer. We do have a finite amount of resources albeit a lot higher than before.

Tackling point 1 I am not overly worried about showing ambition. We know we are a big club and we don't need to take Harry Kane to prove that. We are not City or Chelsea for example who we trying to convince themselves as much as anyone else. I don't think it's Moshiri's method either, we will not become a side show going for Galiticos. Signings will be measures against getting the right players for Everton. It may not be as glamorous but it could well be effective.

Everton's strengths over the last 15 years have been team building, recruitment, scouting trading out and development of a youth academy. Our big weakness has been off the park marketing (and thus lack of finance). IF we add money to the original model we won't go a lot wrong. I can't see us discarding much of the good work done before.

As regards Kane he is no doubt a very good player. Do you consider him a 100 million pound player. We will have to pay a huge premium because of Tottenhams reluctance to let him go. I saw him yesterday and he didn't look a 100 million pound player. Thats not to knock him on 1 game but to say he obviously fits a system at Spurs that brings the best out of him. If we were going to sign someone for 100 million pounds why not make a play for Bale?

I think smart recruitment will be key. A lot of that will need to be done abroad. That will leave us with the difficulty of having an English core or lack of one which I agree is important. It is worth noting though, much of the benefit of an English core is when players are made/developed by your club, not bought. It's why we need to continue to strengthen our academy. I also think signing English players who are not wanted by their clubs could be a profitable market.

I'd take Harry Kane. I think he is a similar level to Lukaku (I actually think Lukaku's ceiling is higher which will play out at this Euro's) but he is more consistent. I'm not sure he's the right player though at that price.

I also think we need to show ambition, but we don't need to fall over ourselves trying to do so. Get things right on the pitch, off the pitch, get the stadium right etc and that will soon start showing our ambition. The biggest show of ambition next season will be finishing in the top 5. Signing big name players is how Newcastle did things and for reasons mention above it just doesn't work.

Lets go and get players who want to join. There will be plenty. Jansen has still not signed for Spurs and Milik looks useful, there are 2 we can have instantly. Move Kone on and make Lukaku have to fight for his place!
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I agree very much with this.

It is significant that a DOF is being appointed and gives us all a huge insight already as to the strategy that will be employed under Moshiri.

Having a bigger transfer budget does not throw out the need to be prudent and forward-thinking when it comes to player recruitment, the transfer market is becoming ever more ridiculous each year and no "business", EFC or otherwise, will be able to sustain the level of spending we will likely see this summer and for the duration of the TV deal.

I very much doubt we will see net spending of the supposed £100M each season at Everton, not least when hopefully there will be concrete (pardon the pun) plans in place for the new stadium this time next year. The Manchester clubs may spend £200M + net this year, we are not a threat to them in any way as regards spending power or pulling power. No threat at all.

I regard Liverpool and Spurs as our peer clubs, certainly in terms of being able to make inroads between us and them in terms of turnover, commercial and sponsorship deals, and stadium comparison. The stadium issue is so, so important. West Ham, Stoke, Southampton, well what about them - let's just pass them by on the open stretch ahead.

As outlined above, we will have to utilise the European / Global player market more than ever before whilst at the same time complimenting this with homegrown academy players coming through each year, and continuing to poach from the domestic lower leagues for prospects such as Brendan Galloway.

Perhaps I'm old-fashioned, and I would love to see us having "mega" wealth, but even then, it seems the richer you are, the easier it is to blow more and more money leading to nowhere in particular. Liverpool spent £300M on a huge amount of dross, whatever about the incompetence and mismanagement of Everton commercially, that type of disaster is one I certainly would not want to emulate.

Success for me is continuous improvement on and off the field and to have a seat at the table when silverware is being given out. A season or two in the limelight would be a huge missed opportunity if we were not in a position to capitalise on it. We are not Leicester no disrespect to their achievement.
 
Zatara said:
Thanks...on the road to recovery but takes forever.

Kopites comment was directed at pointless posts from people usint bad language for no reason or just writing one line if "abuse". Not those who disagree

My thinking was that if we are told that we are able to sign who we like (or at least have the money to do so) then id be in for Butland + those other England internationals. Thats what i would class as huge ambition. I didnt say it would be easy but thats the level we should be aiming for.

Gibson thread when i had a quick peek its full of amazed people...you simply dont resign someone who over their entire career can only play 12-15 games a season...especially if you have a number of better options.

For marketing and branding, you mention Kane may go for £100mil. Bear in mind Bale went for £85mil and hes one of the best in the world...lets say Kane was available at the same price...simplistically, sell Lukaku +£20mil = Kane. We could hypothetically buy him and butland and still habe £50mil left. Would it be worth it, i dont know...

It would certainly show ambition though.

We should be looking to spend whatever is necessary to improve the team and image of the squad and club.
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Honestly lad, have you got rocks in your head?
 
If Moshiri spent EVERY penny of his £1b fortune on Everton it would pay for us to match the wage bill of Chelsea for 5 years. Then it would be gone.
 
When Martinez signed Lukaku I felt it was a great signing and it was a statement of intent

I think because we have been handed this windfall we all are desperately waiting on a big signing.
A top GK, CH, CM and a forward are my priorities, these 3 alone could cost over 100ml. If we could fill these with quality and proven players we could see us looking at challenging the top dogs
With the Euros going on it will always be a waiting game and we will have to be patient.

I do feel though we will see top players being linked and eventually signing

As for Kane and Dier, not a chance
 

Tramps_mate said:
How do you know this exactly?
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Because Moshiri doesn't have an endless supply of cash, and doesn't even make the top 10 in terms of wealthy premier league club owners. The owners of United, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle, Sunderland, Leicester, Stoke and Southampton are all richer than him. Even these clubs cannot just go out and buy whoever they want, they have to adhere to FFP, and factors other than money come into play when trying to sign a player. FFP allows us to make losses of about 100 million over three years, that's the maximum we can invest without contravening FFP, which clearly is not enough to go out and buy whoever we want.

If the 100 million transfer budget figure is correct (and not just tabloid and fanzone hysteria) then a significant portion of that is going to be TV money, about 50% I would guess. Which is nothing to moan about at all, it's still a massive transfer budget in which Moshiri is putting a lot of money where his mouth is, but it in no way allows us to go out and buy whoever we want. Anyone who thinks we can do that is massively deluded.
 
Dymak said:
We cannot sign whoever we like. We do not have the money to do so. You are very naive if you think this is the case.
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In effect this is why I wrote the OP with a hint of a self mocking tone (at least i attempted that!).

Of course its impossible to sign anyone we wish evwn if we did have unlimitwd funds etc etc

I find that this is a bit of a parody really....were apparently after a superstar/top class manager but get Ronald Koeman....were apparently in for amazing players and some people have seen a list of the targets....then we extend Gibson. There as also a big song and dance made for Tim Howard who inaulted the fans not only at the geound but in the press as well, yet Osman and Hibbert as evertonians werent given any opportunity for a farewell.

These are all negative poimts (in my opinion) but were now receiving an onslaught of ITK and press comments that we can sign who we want as we have massive funds.

Well, if thats truly the case then id sign those 4 players....lets see what happens. As far as im concerned all this talk of huge changes etc has been all negative so far compared to the huge expectations which were suggested...

Im looking forward to seeing this supposed ambition..
 
MACCA75 said:
Honestly lad, have you got rocks in your head?
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Look in the other threads people praising the press for writing positive articles...which all say we can sign who we want.

Also ITKs saying we have the funds to sign messi etc

Im just repeating their line...
 

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