Black History Match Fact...

[BlackToffee]

Yeah well you don't need to patronise me friend. I am fully aware of what goes on around the world, I know about history.

I can accept that in the 70s life was pretty [Poor language removed], and hard to deal with. But that was a generation ago. Now, in this modern world it's not an issue. People are more civilised, but I believe having awards like MOBO is like choosing a man for a job because he is black and not because he is good at his job.

Highlighting the colour of the person over his/her talent.

It doesn't need to be said anymore. And as Mikel said earlier, when black people start using an offensive word to eachother in film and music, it becomes a little bit pathetic.

Bottom line is whatever colour, whatever race. If you can do the job, then you deserve as much recognition as the next man.[/QUOTE]

No, the '70's was 30 odd years ago. Or, in my life time. You don't get the same "No Dogs, No Irish, No N**", you just get Anton the Burk with his [Poor language removed] remarks. Its more subtle, its not stopped. Its simply changed its shape and form. I'm not being patronising, I'm trying to show you the nature of the beast.

Being stopped every day for two weeks, wasn't a generation ago, it was in 2005. Being fire bombed by a racist member of the NF wasn't a generaton ago, it was in 1994 (the guy go 25 years minimum)

I fully agree with your bottom point. The point I'm making is that in this real world, people are rarely judged by the content of their character, and the relevance to Everton is that they were one of the last big teams (Everton are white!!!) to have more than one regular black person in their side.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Well it was a generation ago for me.

But this thing with Anton, it was not said with any malicious intent. It was in jest, and if that is how it was meant, it should be taken as such. Aussies call us Pomms. Americans call us Limeys, we call them Yanks. Germans are known as Krauts, French as Frogs. and so on and so on.

But I'm afraid as a race of people you lose the right to complain about the N word, when MOBO awards are given out to artists who peddle their music to all races, and that music has the N word in it.

Do you see what I am getting at?

 

[Goat]

You missed the point I made regarding the N word, I said they claimed it back as their own, I didnt say it was pathetic, they made it mean less or rather they tried.

Carry on.

 

[Goat]

Some blacks, mostly young people, argue that their open use of the word will eventually demystify it, strip it of its racist meaning. They liken it to the way some homosexuals have started referring to themselves as "queers" in a defiant slap at an old slur.

Rap's Embrace of 'N****' Fires Bitter Debate - The New York Times

The story contains lots of N words, dont look if offended, but its not a racist story.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

I kind of agree with you mate, but the N word historically was just a translation, and then it became a slur on black people.

Then it became a cool thing for black people to say to each other in film, music and drama - and no doubt on the streets.

Where it was once deemed offensive, that level of offense has been devalued in my opinion.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

Oppression is not as open or maybe as severe generally as it used to be but it still exists. In Britain, in America and everywhere else.
Don't agree in principle with affirmative descrimination or the concept of MOBO awards. However, I do see why it's necessary to redress the balance (or imbalance). White people have been getting jobs (and flats) just because they're white for a long, long time. And the mainstream music industry has also denied or understated the contribution of blacks to popular music since the US media dubbed Paul Whiteman (don't you just love subtlety) 'The King of Jazz' in the 1920s (and no, it didn't stop then).

 

[Goat]

I would imagine it still has the same meaning when said by white folks.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Some blacks, mostly young people, argue that their open use of the word will eventually demystify it, strip it of its racist meaning. They liken it to the way some homosexuals have started referring to themselves as "queers" in a defiant slap at an old slur.

Rap's Embrace of 'N****' Fires Bitter Debate - The New York Times

The story contains lots of N words, dont look if offended, but its not a racist story.

In the 70s it would not happen, but in this day and age, regardless of how people perceive actions of other people racism is very very much in the minority of a bunch of uneducated clueless thugs.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Oppression is not as open or maybe as severe generally as it used to be but it still exists. In Britain, in America and everywhere else.
Don't agree in principle with affirmative descrimination or the concept of MOBO awards. However, I do see why it's necessary to redress the balance (or imbalance). White people have been getting jobs (and flats) just because they're white for a long, long time. And the mainstream music industry has also denied or understated the contribution of blacks to popular music since the US media dubbed Paul Whiteman (don't you just love subtlety) 'The King of Jazz' in the 1920s (and no, it didn't stop then).

So other than people inventing situations to back up their own views - how are black people oppressed in modern society?

 

[BlackToffee]

Well it was a generation ago for me.

OK, point taken. Different ages. It was in my life time. its not a bedtime story its real as it happened to me. Anyway 1994 or 2005 are not a generation away.

But this thing with Anton, it was not said with any malicious intent. It was in jest, and if that is how it was meant, it should be taken as such. Aussies call us Pomms. Americans call us Limeys, we call them Yanks. Germans are known as Krauts, French as Frogs. and so on and so on.

Oh, now I'm gonna be patronising. White people calling each other pet names. When did [Poor language removed] or [Poor language removed] become a pet name? Both are born of the oppression you claim doesn't exist anymore. They are not friendly terms,, they are racist insults.

The Burk controverseay makes my point for me. He "doesn't have a racist bone in his body" yet he can call someone both a terrorist and a [Poor language removed]. I suspect that both where taken out of context and embellished, such is the way of the media, but why would someone do that?

I would suggest to you an unconscious racist attitude. In the same way that I can never really be an anti sexist, as I 'vegrown up in such a sexist society. I can be more sensitive, more feminine, but I'd treat my girls different to how I'd treat my boys.


But I'm afraid as a race of people you lose the right to complain about the N word, when MOBO awards are given out to artists who peddle their music to all races, and that music has the N word in it.

Do you see what I am getting at?

As a race of people? as a race of people !! Talk about a sweeping statement. Next your gonna say that we all look alive as well

Its like saying that the BNP is representative of the whole of white british society. Sorry Ghost, but that statement is so out of order its untrue.

As for the MOBO's, we can debate that, but I've given you an example of why that came may have come about. Anyway I think that the MOBO's has very little to do with music of Black origin.

If Jamelia can win it with the song "superstar", a pop song if anything, then all music is MOBO. But that's another whole new debate.

And all I did was praised a player being associated with Everton for a unique piece of history.

And if you really want to, we can go into the FA telling an England manager in the '70's not to pick too many Black players for England.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

I think BT has cleared that up. Do you think he was the only person to be stopped by the police after terrorist attacks because he was a a member of an ethnic minority. Back people are more likely to be arrested than white people. They're more likely to be found guilty than whites. and they serve more time than whites after being sentenced for the same crime.

 

[BlackToffee]

So other than people inventing situations to back up their own views - how are black people oppressed in modern society?

1. I wouldn't use the word oppressed, i'd use the word discrimination.

2. I'd point out to the statistics we do know;

a. more likely to be stopped on the streets than a white person
b. More likely to be entered into the judicial system than a whilte person
c. More likely to be jailed for the same offence as a white person
d. More likely to earn less over their lifetime than a comparable white person
e. Less likely to be in high powered jobs (as premier league managers?)

And I haven't even come to the internalised self hatred and doubt festered by a society where white values are the norm and anything from that is "abnormal".

I personally don't use the N word, but I do understand the culture from which it came. I understand the context in which it is used on the street (strictly between friends and not strangers, whatever your colour). To use that argument to negate other arguments about racism in society is a very poor arguement.

Its like saying that we'll continue to beat you over the head, but you'll only get respect from us if you don't react to being beaten.

 

[Goat]

National Statistics Online

 

[BlackToffee]

National Statistics Online

....and your point?

 

[GhostOfDixie]

As a race of people? as a race of people !! Talk about a sweeping statement. Next your gonna say that we all look alive as well

Its like saying that the BNP is representative of the whole of white british society. Sorry Ghost, but that statement is so out of order its untrue.

As for the MOBO's, we can debate that, but I've given you an example of why that came may have come about. Anyway I think that the MOBO's has very little to do with music of Black origin.

If Jamelia can win it with the song "superstar", a pop song if anything, then all music is MOBO. But that's another whole new debate.

And all I did was praised a player being associated with Everton for a unique piece of history.

And if you really want to, we can go into the FA telling an England manager in the '70's not to pick too many Black players for England.

So you are not a race of people?

Jesus christ, your inventing situations here pal. Stop it, please.

A race of people is what it is. Italians, Indians, English, White people, it's not offensive, it's not a sweeping statement - it is what it ******* well is.

I'm out. Can't be arsed with this.