Bitter Truths

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toffeejack said:
hmm, not sure there's much to prove this theory tbh. based on the comparative experience of both, seeing as moyes has worked at bigger clubs for a longer time, but martinez has a better and bigger trophy haul than moyes, there's not much going for this view.
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Apart from the fact the longer Martinez stays at a job the worse the team gets.

Depending on your view you can chose to point to one lucky cup run as defining his career as a good manager i'll choose to point to his teams constantly ending up in relegation battles and his signings being shocking.

6 wins in 28 games in the league after blowing 28m quid on 1 player.

Can't believe "Pep" Martinez with his heralded Barca silky football always ends up battling relegation he just has no luck does he.
 
Piranha said:
Apart from the fact the longer Martinez stays at a job the worse the team gets.

Depending on your view you can chose to point to one lucky cup run as defining his career as a good manager i'll choose to point to his teams constantly ending up in relegation battles and his signings being shocking.

6 wins in 28 games in the league after blowing 28m quid on 1 player.

Can't believe "Pep" Martinez with his heralded Barca silky football always ends up battling relegation he just has no luck does he.
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haha anything to fit your agenda. they beat man city in the final. what about winning the league with swansea 92 points, following season missing out on the championship play off final by 1 point. the same players he bought in the 3rd division were good enough to play in the premier league with swansea.

seriously, what do people seriously expect from a manager of wigan? of course they were battling relegation every season they're bloody terrible. they're going into league 1 next season, that's how bad they are.
 
toffeejack said:
haha anything to fit your agenda. they beat man city in the final. what about winning the league with swansea 92 points, following season missing out on the championship play off final by 1 point. the same players he bought in the 3rd division were good enough to play in the premier league with swansea.

seriously, what do people seriously expect from a manager of wigan? of course they were battling relegation every season they're bloody terrible. they're going into league 1 next season, that's how bad they are.
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This is my agenda, it truly speaks for itself.

2isazir.jpg
 

Nymzee said:
TL;DR I know why Everton are [Poor language removed].

Right, I feel like I need to try and clarify just what is going on at Everton football club. The answer? Exactly what was meant to happen. As soon as Martinez signed up I was filled with 95% fear because for all the joy I got watching Wigan play I was always relieved I wasn't a supporter as they were predictable and always getting relegated.

I said to myself last season I would take anything above 18th in the league and to finish 5th was like an absolute miracle. Did we deserve it? [Poor language removed] yes, of course we did. The only problem is that this led fans to head into 2014/15 with completely misguided optimism for the season ahead. As soon as I read online one fan say "5th place minimum" I knew I was in for a rough year. Everton have some good - potentially great - players in the squad but we don't necessarily have a good -team-. How did we finish 5th you say? Well a mixture of new management adrenaline, fewer games, and some players carrying us.

We had the likes of Barry, Jags, Distin and Howard playing some of the best football of their careers all season long and couple that with the form of Lukaku, the emergence of Barkley and the scoring prowess of Coleman, we managed a record points total. This season, however, we have seen the true nature of the squad:

1. We lack any kind of leader.
2. Our senior players are finished.
3. Our formation doesn't suit the squad we have.
4. Lukaku isn't quite as good as everyone wants him to be. (Does he play better on loan with a point to prove?)
5. Barkley has regressed in a way.
6. John Stones is a [Poor language removed] wizard.

Everton sitting where they currently are in the table is where we should have finished LAST season realistically. We need to forget about being a Top 6 team at the moment because we're not and last season was a fluke. A major squad rebuild was required this year and started well with some long contracts, Besic & Lukaku, however it wasn't enough and I'd hoped January would continue that (LOL yolo optimism). Unless we change our squad and our flexibility with formations we will continue to show our true colours as a weakened premier league team.

I am a diehard Everton fan and it breaks my heart to see us flirt with relegation but these are some bitter pills I think we all need to swallow or else we'll all just end up topping ourselves come May.
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I'll be happy if you lot come 4th and we come 17th but win the Europa..........
 
toffeejack said:
On 12 April 2003, Moyes was sent to the stands during a game against West Bromwich Albion by refereeSteve Bennett for using foul and abusive language and for improper behaviour.[18] Everton finished 17th with 39 points, the lowest total in the club's history (although survival had been confirmed some time earlier),[19] just avoiding relegation.
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That's irrelevant, the squad of players Martinez is managing is more capable than any of the squads Moyes managed.
 
GETEM said:
That's irrelevant, the squad of players Martinez is managing is more capable than any of the squads Moyes managed.
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and all the squads moyes had were better than the ones martinez won the FA Cup with. trophies determine how good a manager is, not how many times he's avoided relegation.
 
toffeejack said:
and all the squads moyes had were better than the ones martinez won the FA Cup with. trophies determine how good a manager is, not how many times he's avoided relegation.
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Martinez has been relegated from the premier league, Moyes hasn't. I'd take a manager who's capable of keeping us in the premier league than one who's capable of winning us a cup.
 

GETEM said:
Martinez has been relegated from the premier league, Moyes hasn't. I'd take a manager who's capable of keeping us in the premier league than one who's capable of winning us a cup.
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well that's where we differ. i can never say a manager who won 20 trophies but got relegated once is better than someone like pulis who just keeps teams in their division without ever winning anything.
 
toffeejack said:
yep, he won the FA Cup with a championship set of players.
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its a cup competition, they had 1 hard game in the final. We certainly didn't give them a go, not exactly like they blazed past everyone, sweeping teams out of the way. Yet at the same time got relegated, over 38 games which is how you judge someone

Anyway, John Sillett and Bobby Gould won the F.A. Cup with lower teams, should have got one of them in to replace kendall in 87

Dennis Wise also got Milwall to an F.A. Cup final
 
haha okay fine, we'll completely dismiss the FA Cup win now because that would
a) make him a better manager than moyes based on achievements
b) because they didn't thrash every team 5-0
c) because they only had to beat the reigning english champions once
d) because the fact they thrashed us didn't count because we played badly
e) because they didn't sweep teams away despite beating all of the teams they came up against.
 

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