Bill Kenwright

[Ferguson1878]

It didn't damage us though, that's a fact, after the collapse of KD we actually moved forward as a club, enjoyed plenty of seasons of European football, worked very hard in the transfer market with clever deals and the squad improved.
Obviously it could of done more perhaps if we had gone KD but it's not a given as I've pointed out above with a list of teams who did move only to go backwards.
Even Arsenal stalled when they moved.
Not moving did nothing to harm us.

5 seasons in Europe since 1999 counts as plenty hahaha no trophy’s but we haven’t stalled ??? Some spin doctor you mate bet your great at talking your self out of trouble with your bird

 

[4737carlin]

Some of the clubs you mentioned have enjoyed the greatest years of their histories. Even going by your simplistic league placings approach a "Stalled" Arsenal I think they've enjoyed higher placings than EFC in every season and have enjoyed many times more European games. We're nowhere near them in terms of success or income. At the beginning of the premiership we matched them

Arsenal at Highbury were levels ahead of the Arsenal at the Emirates, not just in terms of titles but in the transfer market too, the new stadium stalled them because all money was going towards that.
Also you talk about the begging of the Premership, did you know Sir Philip Cater was one of the people responsible for its formation? He was also the chairmen of Everton in the early years of the PL while we stood still and the other teams raced ahead.
He gets a pass because of the 80s but a lot of damage was done to Everton when he was chairman in the 90s, before Kenwright.

 

[Papa Shango]

If we couldn't make the books balance for a larger stadium, with more boxes and more additional income streams costing us just £30m..... how are we going to do it with a football only stadium costing £550-700m at the bottom of the FFP league?

We probably won't. It's not really relevant though is it as not being able to balance books now doesn't mean we could balance them then.

 

[4737carlin]

If we couldn't make the books balance for a larger stadium, with more boxes and more additional income streams costing us just £30m..... how are we going to do it with a football only stadium costing £550-700m at the bottom of the FFP league?

We're at the bottom of the FFP league because of the current owner

 

[Tom Hughes]

The logistics of KD are horrific. You have obviously not driven (drove?) up that way lately! I get the transport hubs for town are fairly near but its not a fun place to get to. There is a reason why new ground gets build away from busier areas rather than getting plonked in the middle of them.

Currently BMD is a wasteland in terms of logistics, Sandhills and one bus every blue moon down Regent Road but that will change once the ground is in place as there is room to build around the area unlike KD which is very enclosed and work there would be highly disruptive.

We are not just going to build BMD and then leave it there with nothing around it. The hope is that it expands to town centre by linking up that part of the docks to the Albert Dock by improving the wasteland in between as you say. Will be interesting to see the 10 streets area grow.

I think you are being a bit selective with the postcard thing! You can also say it is next to the Tobacco Warehouse and the five sided clock..

Actually the ideal location is right in the middle of things.... and when space is available that is the trend for stadium planners. If possible they'll even shoehorn them into the middle of downtown city blocks with no parking.

I pass the site daily. The point is, far fewer people would need to drive. As public transport capacity is easily the highest for the whole city region in the centre. That capacity drops exponentially with distance from town. BMD currently enjoys practically no regular services. The whole of the south docks have enjoyed substantial redevelopment over the last 30yrs but it has barely merited a single new bus service. If Liverpool waters grows to the extent of the orginal scheme we may get a station at vauxhall and a dedicated bus route or two..... but that will always be a tiny fraction of that available at the more central Kings Dock.

 

[Tom Hughes]

We probably won't. It's not really relevant though is it as not being able to balance books now doesn't mean we could balance them then.

The vast disparity in cost says what was far more likely. That's before you take into cost the loss of revenue and opportunity for further investment or take-over since.

 

[Tom Hughes]

We're at the bottom of the FFP league because of the current owner

Who is our chairman? By definition, the man who has been running club throughout. How come nothing is ever his fault in your eyes? We can list endless failures before Moshiri ever arrived. His biggest mistake was thinking the serial failure and liar would ever deliver while he's played absent landlord. According to you we're supposed to be eternally grateful because Moysie managed a few fleeting glances at Europe on a shoestring budget..... we're Everton FC!!! We've been turned into a nothing club that your happy to compare to Reading, Middlesbrough and Wigan.

 

[Papa Shango]

Actually the ideal location is right in the middle of things.... and when space is available that is the trend for stadium planners. If possible they'll even shoehorn them into the middle of downtown city blocks with no parking.

I pass the site daily. The point is, far fewer people would need to drive. As public transport capacity is easily the highest for the whole city region in the centre. That capacity drops exponentially with distance from town. BMD currently enjoys practically no regular services. The whole of the south docks have enjoyed substantial redevelopment over the last 30yrs but it has barely merited a single new bus service. If Liverpool waters grows to the extent of the orginal scheme we may get a station at vauxhall and a dedicated bus route or two..... but that will always be a tiny fraction of that available at the more central Kings Dock.

People will always want to drive for a variety of reasons, it's not a case of not having to.

Sandhills is not that far away, certainly no further than say Liverpool Central to KD but you can easily run shuttle buses from Sandhills with loads of room to do so anyway. The South Docks have not had a massive high profile stadium put in the middle of it, of course there will be additional bus routes, there is nothing to stop that happening there.

Kings Dock isn't even central anyway. It is on the periphery of the city centre.

Kings Dock would have been fine, so to will BMD. The past doesn't matter anyway now.

 

[The binman chronicles]

It didn't damage us though, that's a fact, after the collapse of KD we actually moved forward as a club, enjoyed plenty of seasons of European football, worked very hard in the transfer market with clever deals and the squad improved.
Obviously it could of done more perhaps if we had gone KD but it's not a given as I've pointed out above with a list of teams who did move only to go backwards.
Even Arsenal stalled when they moved.
Not moving did nothing to harm us.

As I said the 'sky is black'. You're mistaking the fact that we did 'ok' thereafter as didn't cause any long term harm. Just like asking anyone who bought a house around the mid nineties and say don't you wish you had waited and bought it now instead.

For every Manchester City (who got incredibly lucky by the way) there is a Southampton, Bolton, even an Arsenal who have not been the same since moving.

Keeping the balance between the stadium costs and the team is always a tough one, we absolutely would not have done that at that point in time I reckon.

We are not like Bolton/Southampton and alike and even then these clubs had an initial uplift but bad decisions thereafter caused problems which can happen new stadium or not. The Emirates cost Arsenal over 10 times more than what KD would have been to us, hence why they decided to tighten up their belts, but they've continued to spend big after a while, so again a club's fortunes can and will go up and down regardless of a new stadium - man utd are exhibit A.

As for balance on costs we had around a £15 million debt when we were vying for KD, that was closer to 50 by the time the bank decided to call in our loans. So I'm struggling to see how you can say we couldn't manage to have that extra 30 million for something that would generated more income AND which would have been off the books anyhow.

 

[Papa Shango]

As I said the 'sky is black'. You're mistaking the fact that we did 'ok' thereafter as didn't cause any long term harm. Just like asking anyone who bought a house around the mid nineties and say don't you wish you had waited and bought it now instead.

We are not like Bolton/Southampton and alike and even then these clubs had an initial uplift but bad decisions thereafter caused problems which can happen new stadium or not. The Emirates cost Arsenal over 10 times more than what KD would have been to us, hence why they decided to tighten up their belts, but they've continued to spend big after a while, so again a club's fortunes can and will go up and down regardless of a new stadium - man utd are exhibit A.

As for balance on costs we had around a £15 million debt when we were vying for KD, that was closer to 50 by the time the bank decided to call in our loans. So I'm struggling to see how you can say we couldn't manage to have that extra 30 million for something that would generated more income AND which would have been off the books anyhow.

We ARE like Bolton/Southampton. We are like every club. We are not a special case.

The sky is black thing doesn't really work in this instance as I am going straight down the middle here. KD would have been nice, it was not to be though so it is what it is. I am not concerned about the past.

There are very fine margins with doing "ok" by the way. If we win the 2009 cup final (lost 3 massive players before it, had a manager who always craps himself in big games) and say we didn't get a dodgy corrupt ref for the Villarreal game and actually qualify for the CL and push on from there and things quite so bad? These are football issues that happen on the pitch. The margins are incredibly fine yet people are so black and white with their opinions.

 

[Rudolf Hucker]

Has he gone yet?

 

[4737carlin]

Who is our chairman? By definition, the man who has been running club throughout. How come nothing is ever his fault in your eyes? We can list endless failures before Moshiri ever arrived. His biggest mistake was thinking the serial failure and liar would ever deliver while he's played absent landlord. According to you we're supposed to be eternally grateful because Moysie managed a few fleeting glances at Europe on a shoestring budget..... we're Everton FC!!! We've been turned into a nothing club that your happy to compare to Reading, Middlesbrough and Wigan.

But your doing that daft thing were everything is his fault, and it's failing miserably now.
If him being charmen is the reason we are in our current mess how come things were a lot better pre Moshiri?
People blame him for things when he was on the board when PJ owned the club, or when he was on the board but Carter was the chairman, but the truth is our most stable times in the last 30 odd years we're when he both owned the club AND when he was chairman, the real damage was done either side

 

[Lob]

Thanks for the good times fatty.

 

[smileychap]

Sorry Bill. Thanks for the last 33 years of your service it’s been immense

David Moyes rebuilt Everton expectations, that's the first thing BK got right
If Mosh sees us through a stadium rebuild and leaves relative financial stability in place, that'll be the second thing.

33 years.

 

[smileychap]

Arsenal at Highbury were levels ahead of the Arsenal at the Emirates, not just in terms of titles but in the transfer market too, the new stadium stalled them because all money was going towards that.
Also you talk about the begging of the Premership, did you know Sir Philip Cater was one of the people responsible for its formation? He was also the chairmen of Everton in the early years of the PL while we stood still and the other teams raced ahead.
He gets a pass because of the 80s but a lot of damage was done to Everton when he was chairman in the 90s, before Kenwright.

Didn't know this - interesting.