Bill Kenwright

[brieverton]

It’s not Bill that worries me, he never promised more than he delivered to my mind, it’s Moshiri and the next sale that worries me, he’s not going to stick around, my eyes are on the next sale that - will happen relatively shortly in my opinion, we won’t have Bill or the safe guard milestones he built into his incremental sale to Moshiri.

It’s the future the sharp eye needs to be on lads, not the past.

There is always going to be fear of the unknown in that respect. Provided some stability can be secured in the next two years we will be a more attractive proposition in Bramley Moore for any potential buyer.

It would be hard to do worse than the last 6 years short of relegation. I'd prefer to see us being run prudently and with diligence any day than the mess that's been made. We are just used to the same faces making the same mistakes.

There remains much potential for a big upswing in our fortunes with competent professionals and leaders in charge. That remains the hope.

 

[Neiler]

There is always going to be fear of the unknown in that respect. Provided some stability can be secured in the next two years we will be a more attractive proposition in Bramley Moore for any potential buyer.

It would be hard to do worse than the last 6 years short of relegation. I'd prefer to see us being run prudently and with diligence any day than the mess that's been made. We are just used to the same faces making the same mistakes.

There remains much potential for a big upswing in our fortunes with competent professionals and leaders in charge. That remains the hope.

Mate what you essentially describe is how we were run when Bill was the main shareholder. lol

While that would be a glass half full approach under new ownership, you also have to look at alternatives, PL has very few owners of investment groups ready to challenge the glass ceiling, Moshiri is one - however i think everyone would accept poor management. Elsewise you are being run by what you make, which is essentially just back to the Bill regime, where he, us and everyone can acknowledge - more investment is required. Essentially are ambitions dont meet our financial bottom line, so being run as is, see us thread water at best and regress if done badly, shes shaky ground. These owners sit around, let the asset appreciate, keep it lean, sell the odd star make a few signing to keep the fans hopeful and eventually move on.

Worse again you are looking at something like Utd or Burnley a leveraged buy out, where the equity acquired at a club is used to leverage borrowing and the debt heaped back onto the club. You are looking at a group of American opportunistic owners here who will absolutely sell the club down the river, thats my concern really, selling grounds, to raise finance - Villa and basically asset stripping the club to protect their investment.

How this all relates to Bill, i think its fairly obvious - he always said he would find the "right buyer who would invest" - he did - the catch is the investment was poorly used by said buyer. Bill did however build in a number of safeguard into the sale, for a share to progress increments by the new owner - its why we see a ground emerging from the dock, its why we saw investment in the squad, they were all makers for Bill to slowly release his shareholding for the benefit of the well being of Everton - i think that is incredible, we're talking 10s of millions here. History and good analysis will show him in a positive light. I certainly will advocate for his role as being Everton's wellbeing positive.

The concern is this - there is absolutely no way Moshiri is sticking around beyond a couple of years, he cant and wont give the club 200 million a year as he currently has been doing - he has to at moment to protect his investment but he absolutely wont continue to do it, because its stupid and i dont think he is stupid. Given that the requirement for new owners will be wean the club of that fiance, you are looking at owners who will be fairly savage in terms of cuts and investment, to get a return on their investment. All eyes need to be on the future as opposed to the past. I back Bill for a number of reasons have done consistently for a long time - for very clear reasons - no more then the above. Im not beyond critiquing him, but generally hes been terrific for us, in very clear limits he never hid and i will always be grateful. A lot of the popular negative narrative about him now is myth and habit.

Next steps though we simply dont have the baked in protections we had when Bill was selling, whatever your opinion on the past its the future nest 2-3 years and the risks ahead we should all be aware of and have an eye on. I believe there is interest in us already.

 

[brieverton]

Mate what you essentially describe is how we were run when Bill was the main shareholder. lol

While that would be a glass half full approach under new ownership, you also have to look at alternatives, PL has very few owners of investment groups ready to challenge the glass ceiling, Moshiri is one - however i think everyone would accept poor management. Elsewise you are being run by what you make, which is essentially just back to the Bill regime, where he, us and everyone can acknowledge - more investment is required. Essentially are ambitions dont meet our financial bottom line, so being run as is, see us thread water at best and regress if done badly, shes shaky ground. These owners sit around, let the asset appreciate, keep it lean, sell the odd star make a few signing to keep the fans hopeful and eventually move on.

Worse again you are looking at something like Utd or Burnley a leveraged buy out, where the equity acquired at a club is used to leverage borrowing and the debt heaped back onto the club. You are looking at a group of American opportunistic owners here who will absolutely sell the club down the river, thats my concern really, selling grounds, to raise finance - Villa and basically asset stripping the club to protect their investment.

How this all relates to Bill, i think its fairly obvious - he always said he would find the "right buyer who would invest" - he did - the catch is the investment was poorly used by said buyer. Bill did however build in a number of safeguard into the sale, for a share to progress increments by the new owner - its why we see a ground emerging from the dock, its why we saw investment in the squad, they were all makers for Bill to slowly release his shareholding for the benefit of the well being of Everton - i think that is incredible, we're talking 10s of millions here. History and good analysis will show him in a positive light. I certainly will advocate for his role as being Everton's wellbeing positive.

The concern is this - there is absolutely no way Moshiri is sticking around beyond a couple of years, he cant and wont give the club 200 million a year as he currently has been doing - he has to at moment to protect his investment but he absolutely wont continue to do it, because its stupid and i dont think he is stupid. Given that the requirement for new owners will be wean the club of that fiance, you are looking at owners who will be fairly savage in terms of cuts and investment, to get a return on their investment. All eyes need to be on the future as opposed to the past. I back Bill for a number of reasons have done consistently for a long time - for very clear reasons - no more then the above. Im not beyond critiquing him, but generally hes been terrific for us, in very clear limits he never hid and i will always be grateful. A lot of the popular negative narrative about him now is myth and habit.

Next steps though we simply dont have the baked in protections we had when Bill was selling, whatever your opinion on the past its the future nest 2-3 years and the risks ahead we should all be aware of and have an eye on. I believe there is interest in us already.

Interesting way of looking at things mate. I think we have to be positive especially after the season just gone, even though some may feel there is no cause to be. I understand that too.

I don't think the ceiling is pre-Moshiri Kenwright stagnation, even though it's infinitely more appealing than what has transpired since 2016.

You can be both well-run and progressive, but we have been badly led under both Kenwright and Moshiri, and that's the issue. In the Premier League era, the club has never opened itself up to the world. We are run more like a country club than a Premier League football club.

Money talks but you can still progress with unity in the same direction on and off the pitch and we haven't had any of it. Just no leadership. I'm not afraid of any takeover as ultimately what will be will be. But it's hard to see how anyone comes in and makes as much of a shambles of it as Moshiri and Kenwright have. Both are culpable and accountable, you can argue the extent to which either of them bear responsibility, ultimately it's on Moshiri.

 

[BNJ1878]

Both are culpable and accountable, you can argue the extent to which either of them bear responsibility, ultimately it's on Moshiri.

Undeniably it's on him.

I think that's the frustrating thing. I had high hopes that he'd be bringing in some serious business nous, and kill the country club attitude that has held us back over the years.

Instead, we're a country club that has been left a huge inheritance and the committee are deciding the best way to spend it.

If he'd install the right people and let them get on with the day to day he'd be pretty much the dream owner.

 

[Neiler]

Interesting way of looking at things mate. I think we have to be positive especially after the season just gone, even though some may feel there is no cause to be. I understand that too.

I don't think the ceiling is pre-Moshiri Kenwright stagnation, even though it's infinitely more appealing than what has transpired since 2016.

You can be both well-run and progressive, but we have been badly led under both Kenwright and Moshiri, and that's the issue. In the Premier League era, the club has never opened itself up to the world. We are run more like a country club than a Premier League football club.

Money talks but you can still progress with unity in the same direction on and off the pitch and we haven't had any of it. Just no leadership. I'm not afraid of any takeover as ultimately what will be will be. But it's hard to see how anyone comes in and makes as much of a shambles of it as Moshiri and Kenwright have. Both are culpable and accountable, you can argue the extent to which either of them bear responsibility, ultimately it's on Moshiri.

I still dont reecgnice the devation from Bill time and management and majority shareholder and what you you say would be your preferred method mate. In fact that is as we were, he and Moyes built something substantiational and broke the ceiling on the CL.

The intention is admirable, more so its preferable, but it is aspirational and blue sky thinking because when you actually apply it to our revenue to an environmental context we have clear limits and the limits that existed under Bills time as major shareholder - the very thing that people accuse him of "managing stagnation". I accept all you say, but i still think what you hope for is exactly what we had under Bills time as majority shareholder, the club fundamentally hasnt changed that much in terms revenue when you factor in inflation of costs. I also dont think there is a huge untapped international markets, tapping those and attracting new fans you need a period of sustained prfile - CL, Tropies etc like City and Chelsea have done in the last 10-15 years. I think we do all we reasonably can given our profile. I agree broadly the Moshiri era has been woeful mismanagement, but think he has been steering the ship. That isthe root cause of this thread and ire for my money. If Moshiri had invested well like under Moyes and Bill, we were competing for top four and winning trophies - this thread wouldn't be here - there is only one man writing and wasting cheuqes, Bill never would have appointed Benitez either - another illustrative example of whos steering the ship.

I think back to Jan when Brands got the bullet, the manager was sacked, the club is disaray and facing down the barrel of a relgation fight chaos - Bill stepped up, we probably had one of the busiest windows in long time with him leading out, 4-5 sinings in, players out - a novelty these days - with money coming in, all the while recruiting an exciting new manager in about four weeks. He has skills and he has value, some of what he negotiated and brokered was very creative. He stood up in crisis circumstance, when a vac um was left by others who let us down.

The future there is real danger mate, in a way we've been cossetted and protected by it - probably due to Bill. But Moshiri is a different fish and hes not going to contnue to drop 200 million a season. We will be sold in the next few years, i think its a certainty and im not sure he will have the best interests of Everton at heart the way Bill had when he should his shareholding.

 

[Lawrence]

Dress it up however one chooses to. The outcome is ZERO trophies and one losing final in the Kenwright era. No serious money spent on Goodison except for a tent in the car park. The Arteta money?? Stones, Lescott, Rooney, all sold to Manchester clubs, giving the RS a good laugh, in their appraisal of us becoming a feeder club. Yes he has been clever in making himself a very rich man. Is he a fan? he is of opportunity.

 

[MisterJ]

He still here then?

 

[4737carlin]

….appointing Benitez was certainly as bad as it gets.

Mad thing is there were people who were against that who tried to pin last season on Bill, that's how desperate they were to discredit the chairman

 

[Daytripper]

If he was Liverpool chairman and the outcome was the same as it has here you would be mocking him to say the least and you’ all bloody well know it too.

 

[Eggs]

Mad thing is there were people who were against that who tried to pin last season on Bill, that's how desperate they were to discredit the chairman

…I honestly have no idea if Kenwright could’ve influenced that decision. By that, I mean did he endorse the decision or did he try and talk Moshiri out of appointing him.

if he did endorse it or if he didn’t advise Moshiri against it, then he is culpable. it contradicts his stance as a great Evertonian.

 

[BNJ1878]

Mad thing is there were people who were against that who tried to pin last season on Bill, that's how desperate they were to discredit the chairman

He does a stand up job of that himself.

He doesn't need any 'help' from posters on an Internet forum.

 

[BNJ1878]

t contradicts his stance as a great Evertonian.

It's his dream to be remembered as a great Evertonian.

He's nothing like a great Evertonian.

He's a supporter with a massive ego. Nothing else.

 

[Lawrence]

It's his dream to be remembered as a great Evertonian.

He's nothing like a great Evertonian.

He's a supporter with a massive ego. Nothing else.

I still dont know how deep his Liverpool FC fondness ran. Give him his due, he sees an opportunity and the Echo Love him, which helped.

 

[Tommy.]

I still dont know how deep his Liverpool FC fondness ran. Give him his due, he sees an opportunity and the Echo Love him, which helped.

I think it's more fear to be honest mate, given his propensity to ban certain media from Goodison/Finch Farm.

 

[Rita_Poon]

Bit worried theres some looking at who Moshiri sells up to, cant see it being for a loss so who has the readies to throw round then?
Bramley Moore Twitter bowl?
Gazprom Arena?
Human rights for all nudge nudge wink wink Qatari stadia?
All very unpalatable.