Assessing the candidates

[Borussin]

Thanks for the update mate, I stand corrected on that point. What do you think of Tuchel? Are you a Dortmund fan?

I am yes
I like him as a coach, he's very intense. He is what I would say is a 'micro manager', everything is detail oriented. This can sometimes become a bit of a problem I believe as sometimes it means so much changing of formations, player positions etc that it seems to have a detrimental affect, which happened a bit last season. But ideally, it is a good thing, especially as it means he can adapt to different situations.

I also actually didn't have a problem with him leaving Dortmund, I think that too was the right decision, there was too much that had happened over the the previous 18 months to ever be able to have a good working situation again. Too much trust was lost, and it wasn't all his fault by the way, neither side came out of it well. But in that situation removing the coach was the only way they could go I believe.

He is very much a career coach I think, he is very ambitious, very single minded, he really believes in himself, and his aim is clear - to get to the very top and be at one of Europe's giant clubs. If he gets there, time will tell. His next job for me is the big test, he has to show he has the temperament to make it, and to be able to maybe put his ego in check a bit, and work better as a team, maybe improve his man managment skills, and to show that he is not just potential, but that he is really good.

I would desecribe his time at Dortmund in simple terms as:
1st season - 75 % very good, 25% dissapointing, unfortunately the diasspointing bit came at the business end, with being knocked out of the Europa league we where favoruites to win at the quarter final stage and losing a dissapointing final to Bayen.
2nd season - 75% dissapointing, 25% very good, and of course the very good bit came at the end - winning the cup! For that he will always be appreciated.

 

[catcherintherye]

I am yes
I like him as a coach, he's very intense. He is what I would say is a 'micro manager', everything is detail oriented. This can sometimes become a bit of a problem I believe as sometimes it means so much changing of formations, player positions etc that it seems to have a detrimental affect, which happened a bit last season. But ideally, it is a good thing, especially as it means he can adapt to different situations.

I also actually didn't have a problem with him leaving Dortmund, I think that too was the right decision, there was too much that had happened over the the previous 18 months to ever be able to have a good working situation again. Too much trust was lost, and it wasn't all his fault by the way, neither side came out of it well. But in that situation removing the coach was the only way they could go I believe.

He is very much a career coach I think, he is very ambitious, very single minded, he really believes in himself, and his aim is clear - to get to the very top and be at one of Europe's giant clubs. If he gets there, time will tell. His next job for me is the big test, he has to show he has the temperament to make it, and to be able to maybe put his ego in check a bit, and work better as a team, maybe improve his man managment skills, and to show that he is not just potential, but that he is really good.

I would desecribe his time at Dortmund in simple terms as:
1st season - 75 % very good, 25% dissapointing, unfortunately the diasspointing bit came at the business end, with being knocked out of the Europa league we where favoruites to win at the quarter final stage and losing a dissapointing final to Bayen.
2nd season - 75% dissapointing, 25% very good, and of course the very good bit came at the end - winning the cup! For that he will always be appreciated.

First of all, as I said in the other thread thanks for giving up your time to come and update us on Tuchel, I'm sure I speak on behalf of all the users in saying it's really useful information!

I have kept an eye on Tuchel for some years now, in part due to his impressive work at Mainz and his career followed a similar trajectory to Klopp (though they seem very different characters with different playing styles).

Everton is quite a unique club in England. In many ways it is like a German club playing in England with much of the values and end processes. There is a strong working class tradition, situated in moderately sized metropolitan city and a loyal fan base home and away. There was some research on measuring teamwork recently, that basically showed German teams have fantastic teamwork ratings and often will outperform the skill set of individual players, who when they move on may not hit the heights they do in Germany (see someone like Kagawa). Everton shares much of those things, particularly under manager David Moyes who would make us better than the sum of our parts.

Like in Germany we have a high emphasis on youth recruitment and giving players an opportunity to play, and are situated in an area where there is a rich resource of talent.

This was the original interest in Tuchel, he seemed to fit what we were looking for, given that he came from a background in youth coaching.

It seems from your viewpoint he is a tactically flexible and strong coach who struggles with the man management side. Does he have a particular style that he will go for within formations?

I think he would be very wise to keep our current temporary manager on as an assistant. Not only is he a good young coach, knows and loves the club, but a decent guy who will put the club first and help a manager. He is also blessed with strong people skills, and if he could work well with Tuchel could really help him in that regard.

While there are many positives for Everton for Tuchel, and 18th is a false position for the potential we have, we are in a league where in essence there are 5 clubs with the Turnover in the region of Bayern, 3 of them a fair bit above Bayerns and a 6th probably somewhere between Bayern and Dortmund (Spurs). Everton are at a Dortmund level, and I think the club can probably learn a fair bit from looking at how Dortmund have competed at various times in spite of some financial handicaps compared to Bayern.

 

[Borussin]

First of all, as I said in the other thread thanks for giving up your time to come and update us on Tuchel, I'm sure I speak on behalf of all the users in saying it's really useful information!

I have kept an eye on Tuchel for some years now, in part due to his impressive work at Mainz and his career followed a similar trajectory to Klopp (though they seem very different characters with different playing styles).

Everton is quite a unique club in England. In many ways it is like a German club playing in England with much of the values and end processes. There is a strong working class tradition, situated in moderately sized metropolitan city and a loyal fan base home and away. There was some research on measuring teamwork recently, that basically showed German teams have fantastic teamwork ratings and often will outperform the skill set of individual players, who when they move on may not hit the heights they do in Germany (see someone like Kagawa). Everton shares much of those things, particularly under manager David Moyes who would make us better than the sum of our parts.

Like in Germany we have a high emphasis on youth recruitment and giving players an opportunity to play, and are situated in an area where there is a rich resource of talent.

This was the original interest in Tuchel, he seemed to fit what we were looking for, given that he came from a background in youth coaching.

It seems from your viewpoint he is a tactically flexible and strong coach who struggles with the man management side. Does he have a particular style that he will go for within formations?

I think he would be very wise to keep our current temporary manager on as an assistant. Not only is he a good young coach, knows and loves the club, but a decent guy who will put the club first and help a manager. He is also blessed with strong people skills, and if he could work well with Tuchel could really help him in that regard.

While there are many positives for Everton for Tuchel, and 18th is a false position for the potential we have, we are in a league where in essence there are 5 clubs with the Turnover in the region of Bayern, 3 of them a fair bit above Bayerns and a 6th probably somewhere between Bayern and Dortmund (Spurs). Everton are at a Dortmund level, and I think the club can probably learn a fair bit from looking at how Dortmund have competed at various times in spite of some financial handicaps compared to Bayern.

I think it’s reasonably assumed that Tuchel’s coaching influence is Pep Guardiola. The problem is of course, that as of yet he hasn’t been at a club who have the monetary resources Guardiola has had, to have these deep squads full of such talent, so it may be hard to see that strong influence at all times!

But he very much is into possession based football. I would say the formation he is most known for is 4-1-4-1, using 2 wingers and 1 holding mid. But also he used a diamond a lot. But then later last season he switched to a back 3. He tinkered a lot last season due to mixed performances and a lot of injuries, so we ended up more with a back 3 in the 2nd half of the season, often going with 3 central defenders (3 out of Sokratis, Bartra, Ginter, Bender and Schmelzer) with mixed results, and a lot of goals conceded. We where all over the place a bit to be honest. Although our best performance late last season no doubt was with a back four in the cup vs Bayern. One thing about him is that he isn't afraid to try something.

Regards youth, for sure like many coaches in Germany he came through from coaching U19 and U17 teams. To be honest, I think maybe a little bit too much was made of the youth angle at Dortmund, cos frankly, it wouldn’t matter who is coach - they’d have to use youth - because of the how the club recruits, and who wouldn’t want to make the most of talents like Weigl and Dembele. There where some issues though as other young players didn’t think they got a fair go under him. Merino maybe the best example, but it was always going to be tough for him to break through that midfield really. But definitely if you have got good young talent, he isn’t shy about using them, I think that’s a strength of many German coaches.

Good to be here! I will keep looking in!

 

[Yarrgh]

After reading this I hope no one notices Tuchel from the rs side of the park as it sounds like he is adept at sorting out Klopp's ex teams.

I honestly have no idea who would be the best for us.

 

[Walter Ego]

Great read that, thanks.

 

[Borussin]

After reading this I hope no one notices Tuchel from the rs side of the park as it sounds like he is adept at sorting out Klopp's ex teams.

I honestly have no idea who would be the best for us.

There wasn't much to sort out in all honesty. Tuchel is a fortunate coach especially in going to Dortmund where he went into one of the most stabalised and settled clubs in europe at the time. Not often does a new coach have that because of course usually teams need new coaches because things are in a bad way. But Dortmund was in a really good way, a bad first half to the season the year before did not ruin 7 years of great work.

And at Mainz, he didn't take over from JK. He took over from Jörn Andersen, who's team had finished mid table in the Bundesliga the season before.

It's one reason I would be interested to see how he would do with a proper 'project', I hope it doesn't sound bad me calling Everton that I do not mean it in a negative way. Cos Dortmund was not a project when he came in. But not all coaches take on those sort of jobs. So I really have no idea what his next job could be.

 

[Toffe3m4n]

Great post mate.

I echo pretty much all of your sentiments there. Tuchel would be the ideal choice with Unsworth still in tow, a scenario which would get the world talking about the club and provide us with an incredibly exciting prospect going forward. How likely that would be though remains to be seen.

I just hope at the very least that Moshiri is getting the feelers out there for the top dogs regardless. Ancelotti is another one who'd get me very excited about Everton, though the likelihood of that would also be fairly slim you'd believe..

 

[catcherintherye]

Great read that, thanks.

You're welcome mate

 

[catcherintherye]

Great post mate.

I echo pretty much all of your sentiments there. Tuchel would be the ideal choice with Unsworth still in tow, a scenario which would get the world talking about the club and provide us with an incredibly exciting prospect going forward. How likely that would be though remains to be seen.

I just hope at the very least that Moshiri is getting the feelers out there for the top dogs regardless. Ancelotti is another one who'd get me very excited about Everton, though the likelihood of that would also be fairly slim you'd believe..

Thanks mate.

I agree, and it may take a bit of time to get a top candidate but for me they are worth the wait.

Ancelotti would be a poorer fit, but goodness the impact he would have if we were to attract him in terms of our viewing in the wider media.

I like Tuchel, with Unsworth as his right hand man to help him with man management would be a perfect combination and maybe the only one which could keep him at the club.

 

[catcherintherye]

There wasn't much to sort out in all honesty. Tuchel is a fortunate coach especially in going to Dortmund where he went into one of the most stabalised and settled clubs in europe at the time. Not often does a new coach have that because of course usually teams need new coaches because things are in a bad way. But Dortmund was in a really good way, a bad first half to the season the year before did not ruin 7 years of great work.

And at Mainz, he didn't take over from JK. He took over from Jörn Andersen, who's team had finished mid table in the Bundesliga the season before.

It's one reason I would be interested to see how he would do with a proper 'project', I hope it doesn't sound bad me calling Everton that I do not mean it in a negative way. Cos Dortmund was not a project when he came in. But not all coaches take on those sort of jobs. So I really have no idea what his next job could be.

Everton i definitely a project mate, and is a spot on analysis. Probably like Dortmund we have a glut of players under 21 who are showing signs of progress and need to be managed through.

I understand he wants a top 4 job (or likely top 6) though at present it looks like either none will be available or none would got for him in the interim. Currently Everton presents a useful opportunity, while we are not 18th we are not a long way off 7th and I could easily see us finishing healthily in the top half if a manager can turn us around quickly (largely due to the average sides in the rest of the league).

While he took over a stable club in Dortmund, often they can be the hardest jobs, as you kind of have everything to lose and very little to gain. The opposite would be true here.

 

[cahill 17]

great read

 

[Borussin]

Everton i definitely a project mate, and is a spot on analysis. Probably like Dortmund we have a glut of players under 21 who are showing signs of progress and need to be managed through.

I understand he wants a top 4 job (or likely top 6) though at present it looks like either none will be available or none would got for him in the interim. Currently Everton presents a useful opportunity, while we are not 18th we are not a long way off 7th and I could easily see us finishing healthily in the top half if a manager can turn us around quickly (largely due to the average sides in the rest of the league).

While he took over a stable club in Dortmund, often they can be the hardest jobs, as you kind of have everything to lose and very little to gain. The opposite would be true here.

For me the interesting situation with Thomas Tuchel is as you say - jobs being available. Often for coaches it is about timing.

One thing that could get in Everton's way is the situation with Bayern Munich. I know there is the arguement 'why did they not just give him the job when Ancelotti left'. I see it as them just wanting a steady hand right now and who better than Jupp Heynckes, so that buys them time to asses their prefered candidate. Will it be Nagelsmann? I was sure it would be, but now I have doubts, and then you have Tuchel, as a possibility.

But does Tuchel risk waiting? I am not sure he will. He already took a year away from football when he went from Mainz. Does he really want to take another year out, I have my doubts. To take 2 seasons out of the game within a 4 year window, that is a lot. He needs to put himself back in the public eye. Football is such a fickle business, if you are out of the limelight for too long, other coaches arrive to take your place - already in Germany this season there are a couple more good young German coaches catching people's eyes.

So I will be surprised if he takes the risk of waiting for Bayern, unless they already gave him a clear message to wait.

So then it comes back to what you say about available jobs, yes he may want a CL club, but who is there now? Does he risk waiting for Arsenal or maybe Chelsea? And does he want to work for that crazy owner at Chelsea anyway? None of the 3 regular CL clubs in Spain will need a manager, I doubt he'd want to go to France. His best situation may well be to be brave and take on a good project.

 

[whiteshadow]

Tuchel likes playing players out of position, switching formations and changing tactics a lot and needs to work on his man management skills.

He sounds really similar to Koeman in a lot of ways yet people seem to want him, even though he'd also only see us as a stepping stone to an elite club.

If people want someone who will do everything he can to get us in the top 6, will use our youth players and not think of us as a team that is delusional for wanting to break in to the top 6 then it's Unsworth.

 

[BornBlue76]

I hoped Unsworth would be the right hand man to Koeman, as I have wanted to see a real succession plan leading him to take over ultimately. Being the assistant to Tuchel sounds ideal... the detailed strategist partnered with a brilliant man manager cut from the cloth of the club.

Unsworths strategic understanding I don't feel should be underestimated. I recall, maybe wrong, the youth guys were really struggling but he managed to turn it and went one run that eventually carried to the next seasons and a title. Let's not forget Tuchel made his name after being given a chance from youth coach.

Issue for Unsworth is he won't be given the same time to actually make the team his I feel. He will need to make a winning side out of Koemans lot plus whatever youth is at his disposal. That's why it's the worst time for him to take over (or the best if he gets it right). Without the team in a safe position he needs quick results! I for one hope he gets them and is given to the summer to show himself, then the club can makes its long term decision.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Tuchel likes playing players out of position, switching formations and changing tactics a lot and needs to work on his man management skills.

He sounds really similar to Koeman in a lot of ways yet people seem to want him, even though he'd also only see us as a stepping stone to an elite club.

If people want someone who will do everything he can to get us in the top 6, will use our youth players and not think of us as a team that is delusional for wanting to break in to the top 6 then it's Unsworth.

I would prefer Tuchel because it feels like the edgier appointment which could yield the higher rewards or end disaster. I always wanted us to appoint Clough. But Everton have always tended to the safer , conservative managers which I think Unsworth is.
Ultimately I think we will appoint Unsworth because he is capable of delivering the mid table to best of the rest stability that Kenwright knows is the best we can hope for. We could break the top six with either manager but the problem is we lack the finances to sustain it , and that in the end is what makes the difference. Leicester won the title , had their best player poached and are back where they belong, without the necessary finance it was inevitable. Villa and Forest are both past European champions (twice in Forests case) yet again it makes no difference in the long term without the fiscal backing to sustain you.
Those at the top are currently streets ahead of the rest of league and plans are currently afoot to further concentrate their notable advantage.
So, yeah, it may as well be Unsworth, on balance. (But I still hope for Tuchel just for the possibilities)