anyone else really mad

[GhostOfDixie]

I really don't know why people are moaning, saying we were looking at this guy way back when, we should have bought him when we had the chance, everyone else is just gonna jump on the bandwagon now and he's gonna go somewhere 'bigger'.

You'd all make terrbile agents! Do you think they and the clubs and players themselves are all stupid? Do you think that they don't know there's a major international tournament happening this summer which gives any international player a chance to put himself in the shop window on the biggest stage, teams the chance to add a few million to any players value just for being there, and agents/players to negotiate a fatter raise?

Do you really think that know one else has been scouting this guy all season, that no-one else saw his performances in the Eufa Cup or the russian league? That Zenit were really going to sell him half way through the season, when they were still fighting for the EC and league, with the euros coming up? That we really have any more or less chance of signing him now than we did 1 or 2 months ago?

Seriously, everything that has happaned has done so the only way it could have and made very little difference in the greater scheme. If he wants to come he will come, but if he doesn't it isn't because we missed our chance, it's simply because he choose a different path. I hope he does, but if he doesn't... C'est la vie. We move on, and don't cry over 'what might have been'

Beautifully put. Gets my vote for post of the day.

 

[All Blue Vijay]

I would rather us continue to buy players like we have been doing and build up a great team atmosphere. Arshavin comes in - he wants more than 50k, then Yak does, Arteta does, Lescott does, Yobo does, AJ does. etc....

Hello GhostofDixie,

Your comments make sense to a certain degree. But what would happen if say Arshavin does a u-turn and wants to come to us? We agree a fee with Zenit and he would like wages around 75-80k a week? What would we do?
That's right!.....We'd sign him and be happy about it! Or any world class player for that matter.

Mr Moyes either has or is about to sign a new contract which aligns him with the highest earners at the club. That is unique and would not happen amongst the top four. Where we want, need and should be. As the team is we are reliant on one of the top four slipping up so we can fill that slot, as we previously did. If they don't slip up to break into upper echelon we must rely on ourselves to increase the squad to be able to compete in all competitions. We have to at sometime to spend silly money on players who may or not be worth the inflated fee's and pay ridiculous wages.

I know Mr. Moyes has an ability to able to spend well with a limited budget. But surely he has a want and a right to be able compete on a level playing field with the rest. He has done a great job considering the state of the club when he took over. The club run the risk of taking him for granted, assuming he will continue to work under those conditions for the foreseeable. It's a dangerous game their playing.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Well I don't think we would pay someone 80k a week. Its not a rule that states you must spend 12m and 80k a week to get in the top 4. As we proved it with a shocking squad. Now we have a much better squad, with some very good players, why can't we do it again?

 

[All Blue Vijay]

Of course Ghost there are no rules. But it's a simple fact that the clubs who do challenge or win the league and cups spend big money on transfers and pay silly wages. I am guessing that all top clubs whether it be Spanish, Italian or German league no managers wage is bigger than the players like Mr. Moyes.

With the greatest of respect, it is a simple fact whether acceptable or not that to attract the higher quality player on a consistent level you must bow to the absurd demands of club valuations and players contract requests. I bow to the fact that Mr. Moyes has indeed brought in some quality for low fees. But that cannot happen all the time. And I'm sure he rather didn't have to work that way.

Like I mentioned in the previous reply one of the top four have to slip up for us to get in there. That's what happened when we did, as happy as it made me feel. That's why we have to increase the squad with quality and spend in a similar manner to the clubs above. At the end of the day 'If nothing changes then nothing changes'.

Respectfully, Deepak.

 

[micknick]

Mick mate I too am frustrated, but I do believe that he is not the sort of player we need. Ok, so he may be able to cut inside, pick a pass etc... But at what cost to the side? He is going to want more money than what he is on now (50K) - which means some players in the side already will get the hump.

Everton have been building and building, slowly and surely. They have great foundation, and they haven't spent lavishly on players who may or may not prove to be great acquisitions. We can't afford to take the risk like Chelsea or Man U can.

I actually do think now he will be seen as a superstar, he alone has propelled Russia into tonights semi final. Without him they look ordinary. His stock has gone up based on those 2 games alone, his agent knows it, his club knows it. Its obvious he is engineering a move to La Liga too.

But we'll get there eventually, were starting to get linked with these players, but I would rather us get there without taking that risk. Its proven that we can do it.

Also we don't need an attacking midfielder. We need defensive midfielders.

Ice Cream? I do like, Haagen Daaz all the way.

My point is before the Euros he wasnt a superstar, he was a good player playing in the Russian league. Now he is probably player of thr tournament and going to command a big fee.

Phil- I do agree, its just that we could have probably got hime in 6 months ago now Barca want a piece of the action we have probably got no chance.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

My point is before the Euros he wasnt a superstar, he was a good player playing in the Russian league. Now he is probably player of thr tournament and going to command a big fee.

Phil- I do agree, its just that we could have probably got hime in 6 months ago now Barca want a piece of the action we have probably got no chance.

Mind you mate someone made a good point earlier. There is no way Zenit would sell him 6 month's before a major tournament when they can and have more than likely got him for alot more then they would have done.

I don't think we could have got him 6 months ago, they were still going for Uefa Cup.

 

[Cold Nate]

Honestly, do you think Arshavin or Zenit would have taken ANY offer before the Euro started? He knows that the Euro was a chance to impress, and had only upside in waiting. It's not our fault, it's just the way it is. Let's all just wait for this tournament to be over before we actually start to worry and get depressed over the Board...

 

[Neiler]

i think thats a bit vague.
the team has to have a standard of quality and collective cohesiveness , yes.

but 1 bad link in the chain will break the team and 1 outstanding link could be the difference between getting 3 points or getting 1.

So which bad link would Ashavein replace?

 

[TX Bill]

You have to remember that us bidding doesn't mean us getting. We're not like Real Madrid using the papers to get us a player, we're classier than that. It wouldn't surprise me if we didn't enquire about him and were told that either he wanted to see out the season, baring in mind they were top of their league and in the latter stages of the UEFA, OR his agent had a quiet word saying wait until the Euros and you have a huge shop window for me to get a nice big fee.

Sensible Post #1

Followed closely by...

 

[TX Bill]

I really don't know why people are moaning, saying we were looking at this guy way back when, we should have bought him when we had the chance, everyone else is just gonna jump on the bandwagon now and he's gonna go somewhere 'bigger'.

You'd all make terrbile agents! Do you think they and the clubs and players themselves are all stupid? Do you think that they don't know there's a major international tournament happening this summer which gives any international player a chance to put himself in the shop window on the biggest stage, teams the chance to add a few million to any players value just for being there, and agents/players to negotiate a fatter raise?

Do you really think that know one else has been scouting this guy all season, that no-one else saw his performances in the Eufa Cup or the russian league? That Zenit were really going to sell him half way through the season, when they were still fighting for the EC and league, with the euros coming up? That we really have any more or less chance of signing him now than we did 1 or 2 months ago?

Seriously, everything that has happaned has done so the only way it could have and made very little difference in the greater scheme. If he wants to come he will come, but if he doesn't it isn't because we missed our chance, it's simply because he choose a different path. I hope he does, but if he doesn't... C'est la vie. We move on, and don't cry over 'what might have been'

Sensible Post #2

 

[linglong]

I'm actually not too bothered either way. I don't think we need an Arshavin type player as a priority. I would rather us spend big on a decent defensive midfielder.

Now Carsleys gone for me at least that has to be a big prioity for the summer,

 

[uknightbreed]

So which bad link would Ashavein replace?

well he will replace aj. but thats not saying aj is a bad link.it just meanes we have more quality in that position.

im just saying thtt there is a place for a bit of idividual genius.
look at cahill for example.we have had games where we have played collectivly as a team but despite looking tough to beat we havent looked like winning untill cahill has popped up with a moment of brilliance to get us 3 points.

last season when cahill was injured the team did ok , but when his quality was added we just looked better.

hence why i say that we dont just need a steady unit but we also need individuals who can turn a game on there own.

arteta and cahilll are the only 2 we have imo who can do this.

 

[Neiler]

well he will replace aj. but thats not saying aj is a bad link.it just meanes we have more quality in that position.

im just saying thtt there is a place for a bit of idividual genius.
look at cahill for example.we have had games where we have played collectivly as a team but despite looking tough to beat we havent looked like winning untill cahill has popped up with a moment of brilliance to get us 3 points.

last season when cahill was injured the team did ok , but when his quality was added we just looked better.

hence why i say that we dont just need a steady unit but we also need individuals who can turn a game on there own.

arteta and cahilll are the only 2 we have imo who can do this.

I take your point mate, and see were your coming form a balance needs to be drawn between indviual quality and team play though. Sure Ashavein would have moments of brilliance and would add something different, i suppose my point really was he wpuld be the sum of a lot of parts rather then distinctly change thigs to the effect that we would suddebnly be challengeing for a title.

We all love watching Arteta, Pienarr Fernandes ply their skill, spray balls all over the place, but the time, space, and freedom to do so is done of the back of less vaulted players such as Osman, Neville, and Carsley (in the past). I suppose my concern really would be to think that one player wouldnt make or break the teams chances. Sure i think he could make a difference in certain games, but would he really make a difference with our backs against the wall type of games? I think we saw last night in certain games he can prove ineffectual.

Dont get me wrong i would be made up if we got him because he is quality, but i dont think he is by any means the missing link or would improve our leauge standing that dramaticly individualy, like i say its about blend, and cohesiveness, and i think you have to be carefull about how many skillfill, quality players with individual brilliance you add to a squad, because i feel you losse some of the tenacity, and fight in a team.

Certainly i dont feel thatone individual player will make the kind of difference many in Ashaveins case have stated.

 

[Basil Fawlty]

I don't know about that, look at Cantona at Utd, he pushed them to the next level and Andy Gray with us in the eighties, both were very good teams but they needed that 1 player to inject a bit of magic into the side

 

[toffeestillidie]

I really don't know why people are moaning, saying we were looking at this guy way back when, we should have bought him when we had the chance, everyone else is just gonna jump on the bandwagon now and he's gonna go somewhere 'bigger'.

You'd all make terrbile agents! Do you think they and the clubs and players themselves are all stupid? Do you think that they don't know there's a major international tournament happening this summer which gives any international player a chance to put himself in the shop window on the biggest stage, teams the chance to add a few million to any players value just for being there, and agents/players to negotiate a fatter raise?

Do you really think that know one else has been scouting this guy all season, that no-one else saw his performances in the Eufa Cup or the russian league? That Zenit were really going to sell him half way through the season, when they were still fighting for the EC and league, with the euros coming up? That we really have any more or less chance of signing him now than we did 1 or 2 months ago?

Seriously, everything that has happaned has done so the only way it could have and made very little difference in the greater scheme. If he wants to come he will come, but if he doesn't it isn't because we missed our chance, it's simply because he choose a different path. I hope he does, but if he doesn't... C'est la vie. We move on, and don't cry over 'what might have been'

phil you make good points, but the way you're approaching this it seems like you're assuming that he knew he'd turn into a standout superstar. players can't predict what their international performance in a specific tournament will be like, after all look at his past performance for country, from what i've seen his own previous goals against tough competition aside from the winner against israel, was a goal in a friendly against germany, and a consolation goal when russia were snotted by portugal.

what i'm trying to say is, i highly doubt he predicted his performance would make him into a world class player, as far as i'm concerned besting sweden was a rather tremendous upset, i wouldn't have expected them to get out of that group, and i doubt he realistically did either. a mediocre performance across 3 games would not have helped him garner interest from better teams, and i wouldn't be surprised if three games was all he expected.

we played saint petersburg in december, as I recall thats when all the buzz started about him. why not make a bid during the transfer window, making even a loan contract could have been worked out since their season was over. I'm not trying to say its highly likely, but there was still a notable chance and i'd rather we atleast bid than let it entirely slip away.

you do make a good point that we may not have had a chance to sign him anyway, but i still think its possible that the club could have acted differently in approaching it.

now that its been a little time since the tournament my initial anger has worn off a great deal, and i understand in transfer dealings that patience is a virtue, but i still believe its possible for the club to act more swiftly so as to break the pattern of 'a lot of buzz and no result'