2019/20 Andre Gomes

[AndyC]

I disagree.

I've posted a lot in here that I think a red card was fair. Plenty - even amongst our own fans - disagree though, and I'm not sure that the club stomping their feet over it would really change that. I don't know about you but when I watch something like that I just make my own mind up on what I think has happened/should happen. The wronged club's stance on it really doesn't affect my thoughts in any way, so why do you think it would matter in this instance?

Mate, my beef isn't specific to the red card. Personally, I think Son should have been yellow carded for the dive and a second yellow given for the foul on Gomes.

My gripe is with the club for its deafening silence over the penalty calls in two games.

I know they'll have their say at today's PL northern meeting, and will have communicated ahead of the meeting but for me it's time the club fought its corner more in public.

I genuinely feel they owe it to us the fans, and our players to make it clear how we all feel.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

For crying out loud sake...

Let me put it simply for you... WTF have we heard from Everton over anything in both the Brighton and Spurs games ?

If you are wronged and don't stand up for yourself, you'll be wronged again, and again, and again ad infinitum.

We should be speaking out when we are wronged and not passively accepting it with a shrug of the shoulders and simply being 'nice little plucky Everton'

A few points from that...

1. I'm only disagreeing with you, I'm not some simpleton who just can't understand.
2. You started off talking about Spurs controlling the post game narrative with their (cringey, poor taste) hourly updates in the well being of poor lickle Son. A narrative that, whilst I disagree with, I really don't see as having any impact on Everton football club. Maybe Gomes doesn't want to be used as a prop and just wants to crack on quietly with recovery. In any event jumping up and down shouting "we're the real victims!" is all a bit... Kopitey. I don;t care about narratives or how the story gets told in the press.
3. I genuinely don't believe referees are sat at home in the week thinking "I know I have to give a bad decision against somebody... But who?! Oh! I know! Everton! They won't kick up a stink!" Officals are incompetent rather than corrupt.
4. Let's say we do stamp our feet and cry about penalties given and not given by VAR over the last few weeks... What's the consequence? Do we get any points for it? Are the refs really thinking about the headlines when they're reviewing decisions? In my view it just becomes a distraction from the players performances and fosters a victim mentality.

 

[Lanolin]

Mate, my beef isn't specific to the red card. Personally, I think Son should have been yellow carded for the dive and a second yellow given for the foul on Gomes.

My gripe is with the club for its deafening silence over the penalty calls in two games.

I know they'll have their say at today's PL northern meeting, and will have communicated ahead of the meeting but for me it's time the club fought its corner more in public.

I genuinely feel they owe it to us the fans, and our players to make it clear how we all feel.

Do we have any evidence that it would help though? I just don’t think it would personally, which is why it doesn’t bother me.

 

[AndyC]

Do we have any evidence that it would help though? I just don’t think it would personally, which is why it doesn’t bother me.

I think mate, that if you look at times when other clubs managers/officials have spoken out, and not only in football but other sports too, when they've been wronged, that there is evidence to support that a well-honed public statement or two, not tirades, has worked in preventing further wrong doings.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

I think mate, that if you look at times when other clubs managers/officials have spoken out, and not only in football but other sports too, when they've been wronged, that there is evidence to support that a well-honed public statement or two, not tirades, has worked in preventing further wrong doings.

Can you present any of this evidence?

 

[Jeff Jones]

Mate, my beef isn't specific to the red card. Personally, I think Son should have been yellow carded for the dive and a second yellow given for the foul on Gomes.

My gripe is with the club for its deafening silence over the penalty calls in two games.

I know they'll have their say at today's PL northern meeting, and will have communicated ahead of the meeting but for me it's time the club fought its corner more in public.

I genuinely feel they owe it to us the fans, and our players to make it clear how we all feel.

I agree with most of what you say, but I'm not sure that Son dived in the incident with Mina. He might have exaggerated the effect of the impact, but there
was contact. On the two penalty issues, yes. both should have been given, specially in the incident when Richarlison was brought down. In the case of
the ball handling I think the 'new' interpretation of the rule is ridiculous.

 

[alvinh]

I think mate, that if you look at times when other clubs managers/officials have spoken out, and not only in football but other sports too, when they've been wronged, that there is evidence to support that a well-honed public statement or two, not tirades, has worked in preventing further wrong doings.

I think that's something fans like to see rather than something that actually has any effect.

Maybe at peak Fergie there was something in it, he had an aura and a sharp tongue and maybe that got them more slack. The critical thing though is that it wasn't the reason they won loads of pots, it was their superior players and tactics that did that. The moaning about decisions or timekeeping is only going to swing a small percentage if anything and it may come at the risk of inviting greater scrutiny of the times when your own players slip up.

 

[AndyC]

A few points from that...

1. I'm only disagreeing with you, I'm not some simpleton who just can't understand.
2. You started off talking about Spurs controlling the post game narrative with their (cringey, poor taste) hourly updates in the well being of poor lickle Son. A narrative that, whilst I disagree with, I really don't see as having any impact on Everton football club. Maybe Gomes doesn't want to be used as a prop and just wants to crack on quietly with recovery. In any event jumping up and down shouting "we're the real victims!" is all a bit... Kopitey. I don;t care about narratives or how the story gets told in the press.
3. I genuinely don't believe referees are sat at home in the week thinking "I know I have to give a bad decision against somebody... But who?! Oh! I know! Everton! They won't kick up a stink!" Officals are incompetent rather than corrupt.
4. Let's say we do stamp our feet and cry about penalties given and not given by VAR over the last few weeks... What's the consequence? Do we get any points for it? Are the refs really thinking about the headlines when they're reviewing decisions? In my view it just becomes a distraction from the players performances and fosters a victim mentality.

In respect of Everton saying nothing, Spurs did control the post-game narrative. And for the record, I never referred to their updates as hourly, nor cringey or poor taste, those are your words.

I also don't feel any need whatsoever for Gomes to be 'used'. He and the club have been public in their statements on the operation and thanks for messages of support, that's fine, no issue whatsoever with that.

And it isn't so much a case of shouting 'we're the victims' and clearly highlighting and elevating the issues over not one but multiple poor decisions that just happen to have impacted upon us in the two most recent games.

The one thing I will entirely and unreservedly agree with you, and this is the nub of my posts, is that too many officials are incompetent... And that's now being compounded by incompetent use of VAR.

If I insinuated you're a simpleton, I didn't mean to so accept my apology if you read my comments that way.

Bottom line is, I am fed up with and tired of our club not standing up for itself.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

In respect of Everton saying nothing, Spurs did control the post-game narrative. And for the record, I never referred to their updates as hourly, nor cringey or poor taste, those are your words.

I also don't feel any need whatsoever for Gomes to be 'used'. He and the club have been public in their statements on the operation and thanks for messages of support, that's fine, no issue whatsoever with that.

And it isn't so much a case of shouting 'we're the victims' and clearly highlighting and elevating the issues over not one but multiple poor decisions that just happen to have impacted upon us in the two most recent games.

The one thing I will entirely an unreservedly agree with you, and this is the nub of my posts, is that too many officials are incompetent... And that's now being compounded by incompetent use of VAR.

If I insinuated you're a simpleton, I didn't mean to so accept my apology if you read my comments that way.

Bottom line is, I am fed up with and tired of our club not standing up for itself.

The bit in bold. Absolutely my own words. The simpleton part, I got carried away with your "For crying out loud" and five exclamation marks.

Take a step back and we're agreeing more than we're disagreeing.

 

[AndyC]

Can you present any of this evidence?

There is actually a case in Rugby League where a club chairman reacted pretty publicly to some game incidents, and whilst I believe he was sanctioned for his outbursts, the referee in question wasn't involved in another game involving that club for the rest of that season.

His feelings must have sent some kind of message of support to his players, as they went unbeaten from that game on till the end of the season.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

There is actually a case in Rugby League where a club chairman reacted pretty publicly to some game incidents, and whilst I believe he was sanctioned for his outbursts, the referee in question wasn't involved in another game involving that club for the rest of that season.

His feelings must have sent some kind of message of support to his players, as they went unbeaten from that game on till the end of the season.

For the record, if that club was Wigan it doesn't count.

Supporting Wigan at rugby is like supporting the house at blackjack.

 

[Deleted member 38674]

2. You started off talking about Spurs controlling the post game narrative with their (cringey, poor taste) hourly updates in the well being of poor lickle Son. A narrative that, whilst I disagree with, I really don't see as having any impact on Everton football club. Maybe Gomes doesn't want to be used as a prop and just wants to crack on quietly with recovery. In any event jumping up and down shouting "we're the real victims!" is all a bit... Kopitey. I don;t care about narratives or how the story gets told in the press.

3. I genuinely don't believe referees are sat at home in the week thinking "I know I have to give a bad decision against somebody... But who?! Oh! I know! Everton! They won't kick up a stink!" Officals are incompetent rather than corrupt.

4. Let's say we do stamp our feet and cry about penalties given and not given by VAR over the last few weeks... What's the consequence? Do we get any points for it? Are the refs really thinking about the headlines when they're reviewing decisions? In my view it just becomes a distraction from the players performances and fosters a victim mentality.

Best post i've seen on here in a while. Several great points.

Very informative, respectful debate too, lads. Great to see @Andy C

 

[AndyC]

For the record, if that club was Wigan it doesn't count.

Supporting Wigan at rugby is like supporting the house at blackjack.

It wasn’t Wigan.

 

[SpongeBob brown shoes]

Possible he could play the end of this season, I'd rather not rush him if we're only talking a handful of games, unless we are truly in the crapper

 

[Lanolin]

I think mate, that if you look at times when other clubs managers/officials have spoken out, and not only in football but other sports too, when they've been wronged, that there is evidence to support that a well-honed public statement or two, not tirades, has worked in preventing further wrong doings.

I just don’t see it. I also think it’s funny that some people who are talking about the boy who cried wolf in the richarlison thread, pointing out how going down too much is counter productive, are also in other threads saying how we should kick up a massive fuss about absolutely everything in order to get the results we want. Almost as if there’s no teal reasoning to their thinking, it’s just impotent rage.