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"Always the victim..It's never your fault" Origins..

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Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian said:
It is about everything EXCEPT in our case, we really shouldn't have to defend ourselves about the song because some idiots claim that we are singing that and the other one about Hillsborough, imo there should be enough level headed r/s that come to our defense given the support we have given them.

WE AREN'T ASKING THEM TO DO THAT THOUGH, AS OUR SUPPORT HAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE UNCONDITIONAL.

Unfortunately the decision this week seems to have given some carte blanche to write and say whatever they want to, or so they think. I can see this going full circle tbh and people turning back against them if at every opportunity they insist on protesting and acting in an undignified manner.

The only ones that have maintained dignity throughout are the relatives and friends of the fallen, maybe before acting they should run things by them to see if it is a manner in which they would behave, or more so... do you want this doing on your behalf ?


As for the united songs, it will be a generational thing, Nev will tell you that at the time a line was drawn, even despite having to put up with Munich songs ever since they have maintained a 'don't even go there' attitude towards songs and comments about Hillsborough, outraged when they hear kopites fire up but still refusing to be drawn into the same.
There are a great many Utd fans that deserve a bit of credit tbh. but lets face it, if you get a gathering of 80,000 people for any kind of event then you are gonna have a percentage that don't know how to behave in a decent manner, it is probably how they always behave and don't know any different. A bit of self policing by the fans wouldn't go amiss really as highlighting it gives the trolls the opportunity to make max. impact.

How about this, and this goes for any group of fans, be it r/s singing about Munich, Mancs about Hillsborough, Chelsea about Jews..... whatever, but for this purpose I'll use our fans so as to not be accused of anything....


A song starts up or a banner is unfurled..... The rest of the crowd shout them down, tear up the offending banner and then the FANS eject them from the stadium, our own fans letting the offenders know that they aren't speaking for all of us and we will not have our name besmirched by a minority. Not talking full scale kick offs btw just turfed out onto the street by their own... this would have more effect than outrage from the folks that they are trying to outrage.
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Spot on Reidy and thanks I was going to start my own thread but you have said everything that I was going to say. Given the shocking Munich chants and insults we had to endure for years I think the conduct of United fans in not responding in kind was nothing short of remakable and something for which we have never been given any credit for. I have been fuming at how the anything for a controversial story gutter press are now portraying United fans as the bad guys ( Quite ironic the press stoking the flames given the conduct of the press after Hilsboro).


Every single United fan I know is 100% behind the JFT 96 campaign ( Many of us including myself signed the petition for the review)

I was on the Stretford end on sat and the songs that were sung by quite a large minority to be honest were more Heysel than Hilsboro related ( Not that it makes it right) although they could be interpereted that way.

Anyway in my opinion United and Liverpool should get together and make a public statement that this **** from both sides has to stop Leadership is required from the highest level at each club

A press conference with Bobby Charlton and Kenny Dalglish sat side by side would be ideal as both men have been personally touched by each tragedy


RIP the 96

RIP The Busby Babes
 
davek said:
This about 1 million per cent.

No sane Evertonian would ever include Hillsborough as part of their victimhood; United fans HAVE, by and large, acted with much greater dignity over Hillsborough than Liverpool supporters have ever afforded them over the Munich air disaster; and Liverpool fans who have just gegged in on the grief of the 96 families because recent events offer a stick to beat other supporters with, WILL end up turning decent people away from supporting a justice campaign to get sentences for the guilty.
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Spot on
 
Been listening to Terry Christian and he is United fan, to be fair he has been great. Follow him on twitter and has been talking a lot sense concerning Hillsborough.

I was listening earlier and I have to say a lot of United fans are not happy about the chants.
 
Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian said:
It is about everything EXCEPT in our case, we really shouldn't have to defend ourselves about the song because some idiots claim that we are singing that and the other one about Hillsborough, imo there should be enough level headed r/s that come to our defense given the support we have given them.

WE AREN'T ASKING THEM TO DO THAT THOUGH, AS OUR SUPPORT HAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE UNCONDITIONAL.

Unfortunately the decision this week seems to have given some carte blanche to write and say whatever they want to, or so they think. I can see this going full circle tbh and people turning back against them if at every opportunity they insist on protesting and acting in an undignified manner.

The only ones that have maintained dignity throughout are the relatives and friends of the fallen, maybe before acting they should run things by them to see if it is a manner in which they would behave, or more so... do you want this doing on your behalf ?


As for the united songs, it will be a generational thing, Nev will tell you that at the time a line was drawn, even despite having to put up with Munich songs ever since they have maintained a 'don't even go there' attitude towards songs and comments about Hillsborough, outraged when they hear kopites fire up but still refusing to be drawn into the same.
There are a great many Utd fans that deserve a bit of credit tbh. but lets face it, if you get a gathering of 80,000 people for any kind of event then you are gonna have a percentage that don't know how to behave in a decent manner, it is probably how they always behave and don't know any different. A bit of self policing by the fans wouldn't go amiss really as highlighting it gives the trolls the opportunity to make max. impact.

How about this, and this goes for any group of fans, be it r/s singing about Munich, Mancs about Hillsborough, Chelsea about Jews..... whatever, but for this purpose I'll use our fans so as to not be accused of anything....


A song starts up or a banner is unfurled..... The rest of the crowd shout them down, tear up the offending banner and then the FANS eject them from the stadium, our own fans letting the offenders know that they aren't speaking for all of us and we will not have our name besmirched by a minority. Not talking full scale kick offs btw just turfed out onto the street by their own... this would have more effect than outrage from the folks that they are trying to outrage.
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Spot on mate
 

i had a debate on twitter, and used the line, Always the victim, Its never your fault. and i got called everything under the sun. i made a thread about it,

Next they will say Offended by everything, ashamed of nothin is about Hillsboro
 
All clubs including our own have crappy fans and in the 1980s it was even worse for other reasons.

My mum is a blue so was her mum but her uncle was a red. My mum tells me stories (you have to remember from a childs view) were her uncle knowing she supported Everton would take her to see them playing, everyone knew he was an LFC supporter but no one paid any attention, in fact they would slap him on the back and have a few jokes. And he would support us. Mums uncle would also take her to Anfield to the Kop and she would wear her blue scarf. From both set of fans as a kid she had a great time and thought the men at the time were gents. If anyone swore in front of her other fans would tell them off " not in front of the young girl" if she could not see a lot of blokes would make room. In fact they were all very protective and made sure she was ok it wasn't just her but other kids received the same treatment.

When either team won a competition her uncle and mother regardless who it was, would go and watch the parade when the teams brought home the cups.

There is also stories when my uncle after a game with united supporters went to the pub afterwards and shared pints. They took the mickey out out of each other, banter was been thrown around but nothing malicious. It was good humoured and these were United and Kopites.

Glad my Uncle is not around to see the changes that has occurred in the game last 25 years or so. My mum rarely watches games and has not been to a match in a very long time considering she used to love the game.

All fans have shouted rubbish no one club has saints and I just wish sometimes people just forget what the Kopites, Leeds, Hammers, United fans said last week or 10 years ago and just move on. Have the chants to wind each other up - footy wouldn't be the same without them but there must come a time when a line has to be drawn in the sand when it goes too far. Personally I love the game but I think one day I am just going to say fcuk it as I am not too fussy with the hate and if I had kids today not sure if I would take them to see a match to be honest, would rather take them to see another sporting event - Athletics, cycling who knows after watching the olympics I have to admit the vile hatred from all fans including our own is just pathetic.
 
I go back a long way.

I used to go and watch Liverpool play occasionally when Everton were away. I loved footie so much - and even as a school boy I could afford it. How times have changed eh?

I have been to derby games (Goodison and Anfield) - wearing my scarf - in the 70s and stood alongside LFC fans of all ages and - brace yourselves - the atmosphere was very warm, cordial, friendly and fun. Very little nastiness. How times have changed eh?

I miss those days.

Anyone who claims that thier football team is their 'religion' and that their ground is their 'church' really ought to have a word with themselves. They are EXACTLY the root cause of the deterioration in the relationships with other supporters. Fruit-loops.
 

I never had that song down as having anything to do with Hillsborough either, but maybe that's just because I'm an Evertonian.

It only appeared post-Suarez/Evra affair, didn't it?

I don't know what business some of Yernited's lot had singing it yesterday. Difficult to construe it any other way given the circumstances, really. Do they normally sing songs about Liverpool when they're not playing them? I ask because I actually have no idea.
 
ScouseBlueBoy said:
I go back a long way.

I used to go and watch Liverpool play occasionally when Everton were away. I loved footie so much - and even as a school boy I could afford it. How times have changed eh?

I have been to derby games (Goodison and Anfield) - wearing my scarf - in the 70s and stood alongside LFC fans of all ages and - brace yourselves - the atmosphere was very warm, cordial, friendly and fun. Very little nastiness. How times have changed eh?

I miss those days.

Anyone who claims that thier football team is their 'religion' and that their ground is their 'church' really ought to have a word with themselves. They are EXACTLY the root cause of the deterioration in the relationships with other supporters. Fruit-loops.
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I reckon thats more than a football thing. Many people are complete balloons these days. Nasty scum of the earth people who couldnt give a toss about anyone or anything. Its only natural that a few follow football.
 
Its got nothing to do with hillsboro, and if an rs says it is then its because they don't like being told the truth about them not being able to accept any responcibility for anything football wise. Of course for the next few weeks it shouldn't be sung, as that would be insensitive given what's just happened with the hillsboro case, but once that's settled down, I've got no problem with it being sung. It came about because of how they reacted over suarez. They should be reminded at every oppertunity.
 
Blue 1 said:
I never had that song down as having anything to do with Hillsborough either, but maybe that's just because I'm an Evertonian.

It only appeared post-Suarez/Evra affair, didn't it?

I don't know what business some of Yernited's lot had singing it yesterday. Difficult to construe it any other way given the circumstances, really. Do they normally sing songs about Liverpool when they're not playing them? I ask because I actually have no idea.
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Just about 90% of their repertoire. For that reason I'd tend not to read anything too sinister into what happened on Saturday; more insensitive than malice over recent news.
 

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