Academy Failure?

[GrandOldTeam]

Are other academy's rubbish?
How many world class English players are there?

Not just English players through the academy.

Would be interesting to benchmark last 5 years vs rest of the league.

Today's opposition have been through loads of managers but look at the youngsters they have...

 

[Del-boy]

To get in the top 6 you can’t afford to carry passengers in the form of young players. We have tried with Davies, Holgate and DCL and look where that has got us.

City have an amazing academy and how many young players do they play? Foden, and he hardly plays and probably only plays because it looks good for them.

 

[Billy Dean]

Are the players not good enough or are they just not being given a chance? Lundstram is now doing well in the Prem after being released, Ledson arguably not too far off, was Lookman really given a fair crack? Is Kean? Has Holgate been worse than Michael Keane? Kenny is doing well at Schalke.

The only youngster who has been given a decent crack is DCL.

 

[Billy Dean]

Today's opposition have been through loads of managers but look at the youngsters they have...

They weren't getting a look in until Lampard came in and gave them a fair crack.

 

[KaiserEFC]

For me academies are usually cyclical and require a fair amount of luck in getting the right youngster in with the right attitude at the right time to give them a platform to go on to even have a chance at being good enough. It’s a difficult thing requiring a lot of scenarios to happen together at once and you’re never going to get everybody in the academy to make the step up.

Do I think the academy could be changed to give the players a better chance? Yes probably. But I can’t say with certainty that any of the players in it are actually that good. To put it very bluntly: you can’t polish a turd no matter how hard you try.

 

[Alanbileysfeathercut]

Not just English players through the academy.

Would be interesting to benchmark last 5 years vs rest of the league.

Today's opposition have been through loads of managers but look at the youngsters they have...

Have they not spent fortunes on their academy?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Have they not spent fortunes on their academy?

Not really mate no, they make more than they spend.

We also spend £5m on the likes of Lewis Gibson.

 

[Undisputed_blue]

Contrary to what Allardyce says, he knows he was always interim with Silva coming in.

So your view is the academy players are good enough, but managers won't risk them?

As simple as that?

2 players in 5 years?

You have to look at the whole situation - it's not "We don't have an environment where it's okay to take risks in playing youngsters"

There's nothing unique about Everton over the last 5 years vs most clubs - in fact, I'd argue we've had more opportunity than most to 'risk' youngsters.

Let's look at young Beningime. He's been knocking on the door for a first team place for the past two years. Allardyce could have played but didn't. Silva didn't play Beningime despite naming him on the bench this season. Yet Unsworth has gave him full of praise and feels he's ready for the first team.

If Everton aren't producing first team players from the academy then you have to look at the whole academy set up rather than just blaming Unsworth. Has the grass roots simply dried up because youngsters are more interested in computer games instead of honing their football talent?

With regards to Coles. Let's remember he was part of the golden generation with the likes of Ferdinand, Lampard, Terry coming through the ranks at West Ham. So he may have an over inflated view on what constitutes academy success compared to Everton's.

 

[Tipp blue]

I've seen it said hundreds of times, player not ready needs a few years in the U23s, then a few years later you have a 22 year old who now has the same people saying too old if he was good enough he'd have made it a few years ago. Just look at Simms, 42 goals in 34 games for the under 18s in the past he would have been straight into the first team but now he's into the U23s playing with fully grown adult players who are not good enough for the first team and he's not been progressing. Having some success in the U23s is the worst thing that's happened to us as far as young lads progressing as they now basically have to wait with little or no progression for a few more years before being classed as if he was good enough he'd of made it by now.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Unsworth hasn't done his job properly. He wants to win above producing players. There's something fundamentally wrong that our kids are not gaining a mentality for top tier football. Cause they aren't all bad football players.

Playing guys like Niasse over Gordon and Simms has summed it up. Completely inept.

 

[Seathestars]

Not just English players through the academy.

Would be interesting to benchmark last 5 years vs rest of the league.

Today's opposition have been through loads of managers but look at the youngsters they have...

Would be interesting to know how the Barca academy has done over that time. They’ve always had a reputation of being one of the best.
Are Man U doing well with theirs over the last 5 years.They seem to have some good youngsters coming through although I’m not sure if they’re all products of their academy.
The few youngsters we’ve had never look fit to me.
Would be interesting to compare our training regime with the best academy, diet too.

 

[Tipp blue]

Under Allardyce, an Silva last season - the run in represented plenty of opportunity.

We had a number of 'dead rubber' games.

There's also the bench - give lads a chance in odd games when winning etc.

You also have to remember there is fines if you field what the PL officials determine to be an understrenght side, wolves were fined for it a few years back under Mick McCarthy..

 

[MercuryBlue88]

Think Unsworth gets an unfair reputation sometimes. Hes claimed Beni has been ready for years. Even proved it at one point by playing him, and the kid did well. Yet managers since have overlooked him, and who knows what happened at wigan. Not Unsworths fault. no doubt he feels players like Gordon and Gibson are ready, and tells the management teams that all the time. Yet its not his fault if they arent given the opportunity to push on. If anything, our biggest issue, is the step Unsworth isint responsible for, the transition to open age football. Poor loans and no chances in the first tram are responsible for that.

 

[Cameron Manning]

To get in the top 6 you can’t afford to carry passengers in the form of young players. We have tried with Davies, Holgate and DCL and look where that has got us.

City have an amazing academy and how many young players do they play? Foden, and he hardly plays and probably only plays because it looks good for them.

A few years ago, a young City team beat Liverpool 11-0, eleven - nil, not one of the City team is still with the club, Trent Alexander was in the Liverpool team.

 

[Kenshin]

There is no real standard at under 23. Especially when you have a 13 million pound striker close to 30 leading the line. It makes the success a little redundant admittedly.

Part of the issue is the coaches sure, otherwise whats the point in the academy? No step ups from title winning sides is an example of how low the standard actually is.

All the former players as coaches is great as a club but not for business. There is a reason why the likes of Barca and Dutch clubs develop in house using this method and the likes of ourselves are scrambling constantly for new managers. Perhaps if we set our sights on pulling the best young coaches for the academy in then sacking a manager will be much less an issue in the future.

It's all fantasy though, the clubs who focus purely on local academies become feeder clubs as a result .