A proper Kirkby thread..

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OK all you anti Kirbyites, simple question

Name all the lies that the club have alleged to have told over Kirkby. No deviation, no nonesense about death of our club, or I won't be going to Kirkby (500 yards from the City limits and all),no, I don't like the stadia. Simply what lies. Lets actually nail them.
 

The LIES!

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250px-Giraffes_at_west_midlands_safari_park.jpg

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IN 1971* Merseyside became that little bit wilder when Knowsley Safari Park was opened to the public by the Earl of Derby.
Its appeal was obvious from the start as it gave visitors the chance to drive through large enclosures where the animals roamed, bringing the wilderness areas of the world to within eight miles of the city centre of Liverpool.

The park was extended after only two years, so that the attraction now had five miles of road allowing more animal attractions to be brought in to delight and fascinate car loads of visitors.

Lions, tigers, elephants, cheetahs, monkeys and giraffes can all be seen along the route, and camels and rhino are also present.
Elephants in the park have flourished and now have to be kept behind an electric fence, so their feeding habits don't see off all the vegetation on the estate.

Knowsley Safari Park has long been one of the most popular attractions on Merseyside, and has won awards both as a tourist attraction and for its work in the field of animal husbandry.

*It was actually 1972, Kenwright out!

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OK first up (I'm replying to my own thread, how sad is that:P:P)

From the anti Kirkby campaign lie book:

The loop is a good option for Everton.

The truth: The loop itself would only fit a stadia of 36,000. Even smaller than our own ground. We could not expand it to 70,000, and while we would be in the city centre, we would have ground more landlocked than GP.

If the surrounding development was taken into account, this figure could be expanded, but the costs involved in overcoming some of the engineering problem would make it more costly than Anfields spaceship - and would we have the money?

The reality is that the Loop was a Bradley vote spoiler
 
There is no plan B at present'
Keith Wyness, 17th July 2007
Source: evertonfc.com

"If the Kirkby project does not happen, then the plan B will be to look again at Goodison Park.



"And I suppose that the Scotland Road site would have to become a plan C."
Bill Kenwright, 10th December 2007 at the club's Annual General Meeting



----------------------------


"Normally when a club has to look for a new stadium, it has to look at financing the whole depth of the new stadium itself. In this case we have been able to work with Tesco and Knowsley to create a situation where Tesco will make a contribution of £50m[1] towards the cost of a new stadium. That is a huge contribution and we believe that with stadium naming rights and proceeds from the sale of Goodison and with some additional debt that we will be able to deliver a world class[2] stadium that will be up there with anything in the Premiership" Keith Wyness
source: evertonfc.com

The following email was sent to Radio Merseyside at 6.30pm on 17th July 2007:

"Reports in a number of news outlets today have stated that Tesco will fund £50m towards the cost of a new stadium for Everton FC. Tesco wish to point out that the intention would be for the proposed stadium funding package to be derived from the value generated by the overall retail led development scheme not as a result of direct funding from Tesco."
Tony Fletcher, Tesco

-----------------------------------

"The new stadium would offer the sort of top-class facilities, which are currently denied to our supporters in what is an ageing and uncompetitive arena."
Keith Wyness
Source: evertonfc.com


"basic facilities, some corporate entertainment facilities"
Planning Application



"The range of facilities is not excessive and reflects those generally found at many other major football stadia, particularly teams playing in the Premiership League, but even then the new ground would not be one of the biggest or have the highest specification."
Planning Application

-------------------------------------------


"Our transportation experts who are Steere Davies Gleeve are probably the best in the UK and they said this stadium will be the best served transportation wise of any stadium in the north west if not the UK. There will be a new rail link at Kirkby and a new station is being planned right now and built. It is right on the M57 motorway and we think Mersey Tram might come into the picture." Keith Wyness
Source: evertonfc.com

'The CPZ [Car Parking Zone] will be the most rigorously enforced at any football ground and cars will be clamped or towed away'. Parking will be 30 minutes walk away. One of Europe’s largest park and ride schemes requiring 95 buses to make 2 trips each will be required, leaving supporters queuing for an hour after the game with similar queues at the railway station which can process fewer than 4,000 passengers in the first 75 minutes after the final whistle.

----------------------------------

"We will be left with very little debt at the end of it. The deal compares very favourably with other clubs building new stadiums. We will be getting a very nice stadium for a small amount of money."
Keith Wyness. 17th July 2007
Source: dailymail.co.uk


"The Kirkby stadium cost was around £50 million when first floated. After the feasibility study and the Board’s wish that supporters only received the highest quality seating, facilities, environment etcetera, the cost rose to about £75 million.
Due to construction costs, the figure then became approximately £100 million. Now, because construction costs have risen again, the total stadium cost at Kirkby is in the region of almost £150 million"
Robert Earl, 10th December 2007 at the club's Annual General Meeting
March 2008, Guardian newspaper reports it will cost Everton £80million for a stake in the stadium.
Source: guardian.co.uk

--------------------------------------------
"8. Will the stadium be used for events other than football matches?
Although its primary use will, of course, be first-team matches, there will be the capacity to stage major shows and concerts at the stadium.
Source: evertonfc.com"


"13. The stadium shall not be used for any Events other than Sporting Events. No concerts or music events shall take place."
Source: Planning Application

---------------------------------------

The above image displays spotlights pointing upwards as part of the stadium design.


They will not be in the final design:
17... "In addition all external lighting, including pitch floodlighting, shall be of a nature and design which has a zero upward lighting requirement so as to eliminate upward glare."
Source: Planning Application


Pre Vote -

pre-vote.jpg


After Vote -

post-vote.jpg
 

There is no plan B at present'
Keith Wyness, 17th July 2007
Source: evertonfc.com

"If the Kirkby project does not happen, then the plan B will be to look again at Goodison Park.



"And I suppose that the Scotland Road site would have to become a plan C."
Bill Kenwright, 10th December 2007 at the club's Annual General Meeting



----------------------------
I see someone has rated KEIOC website already. Good move. I won't answer all of these questions, as I am sure that there are others around more knowledeable (and less prone to snore at the mention of Kirkby) who will answer the question.

I would say Wyness's statement was not a lie but an assertion. They did not foresee a re-developed GP working.

Bill's comment is a climbdown in the face of the hostility of a minority of fans (the no camp is a minority) who were able to push their views as if they represented all of us. They don't. They don't represent me.

Anyway, given that no plans have been made to change GP (yes, it can't remain as it is), nor to engage in spending more money on a site which is inadequate, getting your plan B is nothing more than a pyrric victory.

But hey, you have a plan b which is useless, way to go. (y)(y)
 
What happened to the world class stadium? I take it you havn't read Knowsleys recent PDF file that states all different things?

Everton will pay each member of their staff a certain amount (No wonder they want it to go through) Everton have to pay a fixed amount already, then a futher amount if it gets the green light WITHOUT the other costs.

We have to give Kirkby 100 free events at the stadium per year.

What happened to Park & Ride? Gone

What happened to underground megastore? Gone

They are hardly going to starting looking at ways to redevelop Goodison when they are trying to get this through as quickly as possible, they said if it falls through then they will look at it.

You asked for the "Lies" i've produced them and nailed them.
 
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Ah, so they are lies?

Find me a major development were the initial plans went 100% to plan.

Probably worthwhile checking your definition of a lie before slandering the club.

Its like me saying I think Cahill is going to have a world class season this season, and if he has a bad season everyone calling me a liar. Wyness said the Kirkby ground would be world class, its his opinion, not a lie.
 
Ah, so they are lies?

Find me a major development were the initial plans went 100% to plan.

Probably worth while checking your definition of a lie before slandering the club.

Its like me saying I think Cahill is going to have a world class season this season, and if he has a bad season everyone calling me a liar. Wyness said the Kirkby ground would be world class, its his opinion, not a lie.

No, that's not the same is it? You are giving your opinion and everyone can clearly see that. Wyness, on the other hand, gave a promise that we would have a state of the art stadium, with world class facilities, the best served stadium transport wise, and that the club would not have to go heavily into debt because of it - the so called deal of the century. What we are faced with in reality is a design and build, off the peg, mid-range Premiership stadium, poorly serviced by transport, which will place the club heavily into debt by borrowing against future earnings from it.
 
No, that's not the same is it? You are giving your opinion and everyone can clearly see that. Wyness, on the other hand, gave a promise that we would have a state of the art stadium, with world class facilities, the best served stadium transport wise, and that the club would not have to go heavily into debt because of it - the so called deal of the century. What we are faced with in reality is a design and build, off the peg, mid-range Premiership stadium, poorly serviced by transport, which will place the club heavily into debt by borrowing against future earnings from it.

So thats your opinion, against his.

Neither are actual lies as there are no facts to prove or disprove.

Understand?
 

So thats your opinion, against his.

Neither are actual lies as there are no facts to prove or disprove.

Understand?

Oh I understand what facts are mate.

Mid-level premiership stadium? They're Tesco's words...they should know, eh?

Best served stadium in terms of transportation? The club are having to make plans to hire buses from all over the north west for a match day in Kirkby because Merseytravel cant cope. Source: Stears Davies Gleave the projects transport experts.

Going into debt and securing loans against future earnings? Source: DPP, the company used by the club and Tesco to draw up and cost Desperation Kirkby.

All facts.
 
Oh I understand what facts are mate.

Mid-level premiership stadium? They're Tesco's words...they should know, eh?

Best served stadium in terms of transportation? The club are having to make plans to hire buses from all over the north west for a match day in Kirkby because Merseytravel cant cope. Source: Stears Davies Gleave the projects transport experts.

Going into debt and securing loans against future earnings? Source: DPP, the company used by the club and Tesco to draw up and cost Desperation Kirkby.

All facts.

You say going into debt and securing loans against future earnings like its uncommon? :lol: We have done it for years, as have every other football club. Do you think Liverpools new ground will be paid upfront from their owners who secured loans against future earnings just to purchase the club? (See the Glazers as another example)

Every major development secures loans, paid off from future earnings. Thats life mate. Thats business.

But anyway, what is the alternative to Kirkby?

Bearing in mind that Dunford, Johnson, Birch all admitted remaining at Goodison isn't a viable option, not just Wyness. Sadly, its a fan pipedream.

Kirkby = Short term debt.
Remain at Goodison = continuous long term debt, delaying the inevitability of a move. A move not possible without commerical aid or Roman 2 takes charge.
 
You say going into debt and securing loans against future earnings like its uncommon? :lol: We have done it for years, as have every other football club. Do you think Liverpools new ground will be paid upfront from their owners who secured loans against future earnings just to purchase the club? (See the Glazers as another example)

Every major development secures loans, paid off from future earnings. Thats life mate. Thats business.

But anyway, what is the alternative to Kirkby?

Bearing in mind that Dunford, Johnson, Birch all admitted remaining at Goodison isn't a viable option, not just Wyness. Sadly, its a fan pipedream.

Kirkby = Short term debt.
Remain at Goodison = continuous long term debt, delaying the inevitability of a move. A move not possible without commerical aid or Roman 2 takes charge.

Short term debt? :lol: Is that how you see it? £78M as it stands and rising with every passing day. We got a debt (sorry 'securitisation') of £60M via Bear Stearns when Kenwright took over - we're still servicing it and will continue to do so for the forseeable. But of course, the revenue from the new stadium will all sort that out wont it? All those people down on the seaon ticket waiting lists who'll boost our average attendance to 50,000...oh no, wait..... :lol:

You asked for statements that could be falsified - you got them, now you're shifting the goalposts.

No comeback on the SDG and Tesco admissions on transport and quality of design?

:P
 

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