A managers ability.

[LTblue]

We've never been feared under Moyes. At the very best people have expected a tight game, hard to break down. Teams never expect us to do them 3 or 4 nil.

Many teams fear playing Everton mate. I know from hearing other supporters talking about games coming up against us all the time.

 

[Stend]

Many teams fear playing Everton mate. I know from hearing other supporters talking about games coming up against us all the time.

It's probably a fear like us playing Spurs. We know we are going to be in for a tough game but we don't expect them to beat us 4-0. Where as Chelsea, United, Arsenal of old and Liverpool. We fear them because they have put 4 past us in the past.

 

[LTblue]

It's probably a fear like us playing Spurs. We know we are going to be in for a tough game but we don't expect them to beat us 4-0. Where as Chelsea, United, Arsenal of old and Liverpool. We fear them because they have put 4 past us in the past.

That's just about the size of it.

 

[Moomin]

It's probably a fear like us playing Spurs. We know we are going to be in for a tough game but we don't expect them to beat us 4-0. Where as Chelsea, United, Arsenal of old and Liverpool. We fear them because they have put 4 past us in the past.

Whats fear got to do with 3 or 4 nil though, it's not as if people are relieved when they get beat 2 - nil " Thank fcuk, they never got a third, i would not be able to cope with that "

 

[Groucho]

Sometimes I wonder about the importance of managers and tactics, etc. It's players that win you games, ultimately.

 

[Stend]

Whats fear got to do with 3 or 4 nil though, it's not as if people are relieved when they get beat 2 - nil " Thank fcuk, they never got a third, i would not be able to cope with that "

You don't get it. If teamshave convincingly beat you on previous occasions you fear facing them again. However. Who have we ever turned over 3-0 or 4-0 at the top of the league under Moyes? Liverpool once?

 

[LTblue]

Sometimes I wonder about the importance of managers and tactics, etc. It's players that win you games, ultimately.

See AVB at Porto and Spurs, Mourinho at Porto, Inter Milan, Chelsea and his somehow managing to overcome Barca last season to win the league, See Everton's history through the 70's after Catterick left and then the return to trophy winning when Kendall took over, see United pre-Ferguson, even the difference in us now since Moyes took over in comparison with the Walter Smith and Howard Kenall MKIII era's.

 

[Moomin]

You don't get it. If teamshave convincingly beat you on previous occasions you fear facing them again. However. Who have we ever turned over 3-0 or 4-0 at the top of the league under Moyes? Liverpool once?

I'm obviously not getting you, but from what i can gather is this

: You speak on behalf of all other premiership supporters, regarding fear of certain teams.

: No need to fear 1 or 2 nil defeats, it's only 3 or 4 nil that should be feared.

: Fear only exists with teams at the top of the league or something.

 

[edge]

it would take some manager and a lot of luck, possibly a lower lg or one from abroad who could get players for low fees that others hadnt looked at, to build a team up to challange, couldnt see it lasting after the shock had worn off unless the had money coming in to keep improving , but i think somewere along the line someone will manage to get up there with talent and a bit of luck and bravery.

 

[Tubey]

See AVB at Porto and Spurs, Mourinho at Porto, Inter Milan, Chelsea and his somehow managing to overcome Barca last season to win the league, See Everton's history through the 70's after Catterick left and then the return to trophy winning when Kendall took over, see United pre-Ferguson, even the difference in us now since Moyes took over in comparison with the Walter Smith and Howard Kenall MKIII era's.

Kendall had a degree of luck in that a lot of good players matured into fantastic players at the right time. Not saying he wasn't a brilliant manager but the signing of Gray was crucial.

That said, it's a whole new era now. You will never see the likes of that again - a struggling side that suddenly gels and blitzes the opposition away.

In the modern game, the difference between a good manager and a bad one is a three to six league places swing depending on what club you're talking about and the squad quality.

I agree with Groucho. Football is primarily about the players. Managers are very much secondary, as are captains etc. If you have good players, you have a chance of achieving good results no matter what. I personally think Mancini is an awful manager and should be sacked for how he's doing there, for example.

With Everton, the mean target result with all things considered right now should be 7th. A really good manager could swing that as high as 4th. A really bad manager could swing that as low as 10th. If we had Pardew in charge now, we'd be aiming at 10th. If we had Alex Ferguson, we'd be aiming at 4th/5th IMO.

We have Moyes, so we're aiming at 6th/7th.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

Sometimes I wonder about the importance of managers and tactics, etc. It's players that win you games, ultimately.

Players motivation is the biggest factor in winning games I reckon. Most the time our players step out they're only putting in about 80%, I think Pienaar is the biggest example. Sometimes he plays like a man possessed and he's excellent, a lot of the time he drifts about doing the easy stuff only.

 

[Tubey]

I'm obviously not getting you, but from what i can gather is this

: You speak on behalf of all other premiership supporters, regarding fear of certain teams.

: No need to fear 1 or 2 nil defeats, it's only 3 or 4 nil that should be feared.

: Fear only exists with teams at the top of the league or something.

He's saying teams only think Everton will be a difficult game; they don't fear a hiding ahead of the game, so there's no intimidation.

For example, we fear Arsenal, as they've teared us apart on multiple occasions.

We haven't properly turned over a side in recent memory.

 

[nigelcoyb]

I am old enough to remember a time when a manager was the most important person at a club.When money was less influential.
Now the most most important person is the owner and the amount of money he has and is prepared to sink into his club.

It made me wonder about the ability of the various managers in the premiership.
If Sir Alex Ferguson suddenly became manager of wigan,West Ham,Reading or other struggling clubs would he change their fortunes dramatically.If Martinez was given the Utd job would he then win the league?..would David Moyes ?
A couple of eeks ago I asked what kind of a season Spurs would be having if they had appointed David Moyes.

Is it possible for any manager to break through this famous glaas ceiling without huge pots of money. OR
is it possible for any manager anywhere to improve on the record of David Moyes without a large injection of cash.

Fantastic post and like yourself I feel the same, most certainly anyone can win a pot at the monied elite (see Di Mateo) and Moyes must go up the wall knowing this but his problem is he's had a surfeit of time the antidote to the monied elite with their managerial merry go round and inherent instability - or so it used to be.

Moyes is the only one in this situation so personally I say it's too small a sample to say it's really changed - more like managers don't gamble preferring to orotect their millionaire jobs - Moyes sussed this after 3 years and he's never been the same.

 

[Groucho]

I suppose what I meant was, that while managers are important and do have a role to play, I sometimes, not all the time, think that an over-importance is placed on them.

 

[Stend]

He's saying teams only think Everton will be a difficult game; they don't fear a hiding ahead of the game, so there's no intimidation.

For example, we fear Arsenal, as they've teared us apart on multiple occasions.

We haven't properly turned over a side in recent memory.

Which is half the battle. Psychology.