A few thoughts -- Rebuilding

[Zatara]

Following on from my last thread regarding the 'new spine' needed in the team (which I think is clear with no Distin / Barry / Lukaku replacements).....I thought I'd go over the 'new wave' we have in the side and see where the team needs to be improved to kick-on the Martinez dynasty.

If I was Roberto Martinez I would now be looking at the younger players (something I've always championed) to see who can fit the systems and style I would be imprinting on the team/squad and club as a whole. This not only creates a long term view but also would allow me to assess the resale values of more experienced players who could be replaced over a short period of time.

GK-- Robles (23): A Martinez signing and yet hard to judge after only a couple of appearances.
LB-- Oviedo(23): Fantastic form since coming into the team. A marvellous attacking full back
LCB--
RCB--Stones(19):Martinez wanted him at Wigan and now 3rd choice.
RB-- Coleman(25): Leads by example and one of the top two players in his position in the league
LM
LCM
RCM--McCarthy(23):Martinez signing and an inspirational midfielder already.
AM---Barkley(20): The fulcrum of our team and leads by example.
RM
CF

Potentials
LB-Garbutt(20): England u20 left back on loan at Colchester till January.
RCBuffy(21):Irish u21 international centre back just returned from Yeovil.
CM-Junior(21):Season long loan at Vitesse Arnhem.
CM-Lundstram(20): England u20 centre midfielder on loan at Yeovil.
CM-Green(17):England u17 international centre midfielder, turning 18 next week
CM-Jones(17):Wales u18 international centre midfielder
CM-Ledson(16)England u17 international centre midfielder
LM-Kennedy(19):Signed from Kilmarnock but not near the squad yet

Obviously some will come through who I haven't mentioned and others listed will fall by the wayside.

One important thing to bear in mind as well is that there are first team players still to slot in and young players do need experienced heads in the side to bring on the youth;

RCB-Jagielka(31):England international Centre Back
LB-Baines(29):England international Left Back
LM-Mirallas(26):Belgian international winger

When you line up this new young side in the current system it looks something like this;


...............................Robles

Coleman.........Stones............Jagielka............Oviedo

Mirallas.................McCarthy.........???............???

................................Barkley

....................................???


The real dilemma here is does Baines get in the team? If he did then it would push Oviedo into left wing and he isn't a top 4 side quality winger....also, when looking at centre back it's also disjointed with both right footers in there. So this is something to bear in mind and an advocate perhaps for selling Baines in January.

Another key point to factor in is that almost ALL (over 10) players are actually going to be out of contract 2 years from the end of the season -- meaning that although some new ones may be brought in and also short-term signings such as loans or experienced players retained (Barry/Distin) there is a concern about an ageing team having no resale value when rebuilding.

I would say Martinez's targets will be the following;

Left sided centre back (Replacing Distin)
Left sided central midfielder (Replacing Barry)
Left sided midfielder (Replacing Pienaar
Striker (Replacing Lukaku)

This isn't a huge amount of players needed for the first 11, however it's important to bear in mind that three of these players are left sided and may not 'gel' immediately -- although through signing younger players (and some potentially coming through the ranks) they will have time to be integrated into the team.

I really do wonder if the young players we have coming through can fill one or two of these first 11 'gaps' over the next two seasons -- with a couple of loan additions of the quality of Deulofeu as well we may not need to overreach or spend large sums to build a really potent side.

The fact remains though, strikers are commodities and Martinez doesn't have great form in his managerial career of finding top forwards -- although he's done well with Lukaku what will happen next season...


A very interesting couple of windows I feel.

 

[mythbuster]

Hasn't Martinez hinted that should we keep Barry, then he'll end up playing as a centre half for us?

 

[Zatara]

Hasn't Martinez hinted that should we keep Barry, then he'll end up playing as a centre half for us?

He will be 33 in February, so the key really is whether he would be seen as a long term player for the Martinez revolution.

Another point though, is that we would need 2 players competing with the 2 centre backs so having 2 right footers and 2 left footers would be ideal. However, a young left sided defender should still be a priority.

 

[steken1]

We've got older heads in the right places and young players getting a chance.

Perfect mix imo. I can see Jags playing at the level he does now for at least another 2 seasons, same with Barry.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Plus Distin has at least another 5 seasons in him.

 

[Zatara]

We've got older heads in the right places and young players getting a chance.

Perfect mix imo. I can see Jags playing at the level he does now for at least another 2 seasons, same with Barry.

This is the main issue I think though.....I spent a while looking over the contracts of our players and over 10 of the first team have contracts expiring within 2 seasons. So if you think about Distin and Barry having 2 seasons left then we're going to have a heck of a lot of players who are either ageing / retired / out of contract / injury prone......and of course theres little to no resale values (think of Gibson).

Secondly, Jagielka, Mirallas and Baines still have good resale values (I would guess 10mil for the first two each and 15mil for Baines?) but other than these 3 and the players I listed down as having long term futures, who actually has strong resale values which may be invested back into the side?

I think Martinez will really need to move a lot of players in/out in the next 2 windows.

 

[Zatara]

Plus Distin has at least another 5 seasons in him.

Drinks his milk you see.

 

[WarwickHunt]

He will be 33 in February, so the key really is whether he would be seen as a long term player for the Martinez revolution.

Another point though, is that we would need 2 players competing with the 2 centre backs so having 2 right footers and 2 left footers would be ideal. However, a young left sided defender should still be a priority.

Barry plays like a man 5 years younger, he's a professional who always keeps himself fit and has something most players haven't; his brain.

 

[WarwickHunt]

I think Martinez will really need to move a lot of players in/out in the next 2 windows.

I disagree. We still have years left in Jagielka and there's always Stones and Alcarez who could replace Distin. Barry will carry on playing as he is and Gibson will be cover for him and McCarthy. Pienaar is still capable of playing well and is linking up well with Oviedo, Baines has years left in him, Osman will be used from the bench over the next 2 seasons.

The only players I see leaving in the next 2 windows will be:

Heitinga
Jelavic
Lukaku
Deulofeu

 

[Goat]

Zatara is obsessed with the YOOTH.

He doesnt realise that the blend of old uns and young uns we currently have is ideal.

 

[Zatara]

I disagree. We still have years left in Jagielka and there's always Stones and Alcarez who could replace Distin. Barry will carry on playing as he is and Gibson will be cover for him and McCarthy. Pienaar is still capable of playing well and is linking up well with Oviedo, Baines has years left in him, Osman will be used from the bench over the next 2 seasons.

The only players I see leaving in the next 2 windows will be:

Heitinga
Jelavic
Lukaku
Deulofeu

in the next two seasons off the top of my head;

Howard
Distin
Alcaraz
Hibbert
Osman
Gibson
Barry
Heitinga
Pienaar
Deulofeu
Lukaku

Will all be out of contract -- not our players / ageing or retired and have little to no resale value. If you take it that Barry would stay and Jelavic would be sold then that's still 11 players gone/going or no value with a few mil for Jelavic I would guess.

So, bearing this in mind and the fact we don't have cash to spend frivolously we need some younger players to come up through the reserves at least to pad out the squad initially -- learn from the experienced heads for a couple of seasons and hope they make the grade -- meanwhile also investing in TOP players to come into the first eleven and also further young players to come into the first team with a stable integration.

 

[Zatara]

Zatara is obsessed with the YOOTH.

He doesnt realise that the blend of old uns and young uns we currently have is ideal.

I think it's excellent, which is why I think we will need to 'wheel and deal' a bit to bring in some more young players to benefit.

Also if we can do this well there may be cash over for a record signing of a striker which we need.

 

[steken1]

This is the main issue I think though.....I spent a while looking over the contracts of our players and over 10 of the first team have contracts expiring within 2 seasons. So if you think about Distin and Barry having 2 seasons left then we're going to have a heck of a lot of players who are either ageing / retired / out of contract / injury prone......and of course theres little to no resale values (think of Gibson).

Secondly, Jagielka, Mirallas and Baines still have good resale values (I would guess 10mil for the first two each and 15mil for Baines?) but other than these 3 and the players I listed down as having long term futures, who actually has strong resale values which may be invested back into the side?

I think Martinez will really need to move a lot of players in/out in the next 2 windows.

Sides constantly evolve Zat. Not many thought Distin would be going strong now, but he is. Nobody knows if there's a 17yr old kid in our youth set up thats going to grow and develop like crazy. 2 seasons is a long time in football.

Only Distin is nearing retirement and thats some way away looking at him. I think you can be too preoccupied with tomorrow and not make the best of today thinking like that.

 

[toffeeben15]

I think it's excellent, which is why I think we will need to 'wheel and deal' a bit to bring in some more young players to benefit.

Also if we can do this well there may be cash over for a record signing of a striker which we need.

Yeah but look at villa to much youth not enough expeirence. We have a good blend of old and young however we should now be think of buying young good first team players in who can replace and demote the old guys to the bench. If we do this then there will be good squad depth for a few seasons before they start to drop of. We need to keep the likes of distin pienaar osman and Howard as its good for the club but they have to expect that some times they are required as bench players

 

[Pat's Van]

how old is Phil "Jaggers" Jagielka ???