7th -> EL what does it take

[davek]

Don't understand this sentiment. It's only this country that views the Europa as a nothing competition. Hopefully we'll have the money to attract quality players but make no mistake, they see EL, rightly IMO, as a good European competition and so it'd certainly strengthen our case when chasing said players.

I can't think of a EL campaign by any English club other than Chelsea (who didn't really value it either status wise or financially) that have got anything out of that competition. It's more of a hindrance than a boost. I'd have thought that a manager wanting to consolidate a reasonable first season in charge and bed in new players and a new system would see it as completely knackering that.

Still, if we do qualify and play in it past the New Year there can be no excuses for PL form. It does affect it but both Moyes and Martinez had to endure it and were given no quarter over it so the same would apply to Koeman.

 

[brieverton]

I hope we qualify.

It is another shot at a trophy and one with UCL qualification for the winner.

I don't think it would have any impact on making us more attractive to players, but it wouldn't do any harm either.

If anything it might help convince RK/SW to sign an additional one or two players in the summer, to make the squad deep enough.

I know RK has said that its quality over quantity, and of course it is, but we still need numbers considering we are probably going to lose another 3 or 4 on top of those who left last month.

Even with U23s coming through, we would have to sign 5-6 players to cope with EL whereas we could manage with 4 without it.

EL is not a competition I would use to experiment and rotate in, it defeats the purpose of qualifying IMO.

A cup I would really love to see us win, you need to get to the QF stage at least to call it worthwhile but we need to go all the way / get over the line in something, whatever it is, soon.

 

[davek]

No it doesn't. Only in England do we think like that.

It's a major trophy

It is, but how many games do you have to play and win to secure it? 15 or 16? Imagine on top of two reasonable domestic cup runs which added another, say, 6/7 more games to the season - that would mean we'd play something like 56 games just to get to the EL QF stage.

It'd slaughter us in the PL.

 

[ParisToffee]

Europa will get players to see improvement on last 2 years under previous "manager" and get players more interested in signing for us in summer when looking to recruit so don't see the hatred towards it Early rounds can be organised into preseason with proper planning so excuses are'nt acceptable as Everton needs to be run like a business ref to player management and welfare and using some of the u23 squad would be benifical

The important thing is we aim to get as far up table as possible before May and ensure minimum we take 7th place

 

[davek]

Players want to play in Europe mate... shows the club is moving the the right direction... also gives you a chance at another trophy and CL qualification... not to mention the fans get to go around Europe .... why would you not want it?

The PL is most important and then realistically we can juggle a domestic cup campaign with that 38 game schedule.

I have no objection to an extended European run as long as we had a large squad full of quality players. We don't, and it'd destroy our PL season.

 

[Tel001]

The PL is most important and then realistically we can juggle a domestic cup campaign with that 38 game schedule.

I have no objection to an extended European run as long as we had a large squad full of quality players. We don't, and it'd destroy our PL season.

There is no guarantee that it will destroy our season... Moyes managed to keep us in the same position when we played in Europe... and we have the financial power to increase the size of the squad... and with Europe we might be able to attract the players we actually want

 

[davek]

You say that like we can actually do anything about it? Other than deliberately finish lower, not really in our hands is it mate. Not worth complaining about. If we're in it, we're in it, so it's a chance of a trophy, and another route into CL.
Sky did an article (in 2015) looking at British teams in EL. 8 out 25 teams equalled or bettered their league position, from the previous year, with 17 teams finishing lower when in EL.

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...does-europa-league-affect-premier-league-form

So would seem to have an impact, but by no means is a certainty that you end up worse off.

Those stats say it all. If we say that half of the teams who did better/did no worse were split down the middle (4 in each category) and add that to the team's that did worse then that makes 21 out of 25 teams who failed to build on a previous seasons PL form.

They are bad odds.

 

[Amw79]

Those stats say it all. If we say that half of the teams who did better/did no worse were split down the middle (4 in each category) and add that to the team's that did worse then that makes 21 out of 25 teams who failed to build on a previous seasons PL form.

They are bad odds.

It was 2 who equalled it, so 19 / 6.

So, yeah, statistically significant for sure. But still not a certainty.

But the main point is, it's not in our control. Pointless to complain about it. If we end up in it another potential trophy and another way into CL.

 

[davek]

There is no guarantee that it will destroy our season... Moyes managed to keep us in the same position when we played in Europe... and we have the financial power to increase the size of the squad... and with Europe we might be able to attract the players we actually want

Did Moyes improve our PL position in a EL season (from the previous season)?

 

[Amw79]

Did Moyes improve our PL position in a EL season (from the previous season)?

Yeah 07/08 see my above link. 1 place higher.

 

[davek]

Yeah 07/08 see my above link. 1 place higher.

Yeah, that as as good effort, especially given we also got to the LC SF that same year too. Still, the other two Everton seasons from your link show us slipping 3 and 6 places. That HAS to be avoided at all costs.

 

[Amw79]

Yeah, that as as good effort, especially given we also got to the LC SF that same year too. Still, the other two Everton seasons from your link show us slipping 3 and 6 places. That HAS to be avoided at all costs.

Agreed.

There's another study which looked across Europe looking at average points per game after a EL mid-weeker vs average points in the previous game, over 6 seasons and found no significant difference.

Only skim read it and didnt really get into the numbers / methodology, but certainly conflicts with the earlier PL finishes comparison.

Was commissioned by UEFA though so not exactly impartial. Probably tried a number of methodologies until they found one that gave the answer they wanted.

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2299744.html

 

[davek]

Agreed.

There's another study which looked across Europe looking at average points per game after a EL mid-weeker vs average points in the previous game, over 6 seasons and found no significant difference.

Only skim read it and didnt really get into the numbers / methodology, but certainly conflicts with the earlier PL finishes comparison.

Was commissioned by UEFA though so not exactly impartial. Probably tried a number of methodologies until they found one that gave the answer they wanted.

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2299744.html

Most of those European leagues have midwinter breaks, so the better overall European team stats in EL competition can give the impression our teams don't suffer as much.

 

[Blake]

Only cup winners qualify, not runners up.

Utd win league Cup, someone in the top 6 wins FA cup, 7th gets EL. Simple as that.

Why? It's incredibly straightforward.

Until we finish 7th and...

City collapse in the league, finish 8th but win the CL. Plus Utd win the EL and finish 5th.

In which case Eng get 5 CL spots, but only 2 EL spots. 7th place misses out on EL.

It's only straightforward if you ignore the exceptions

 

[Huyton Layne]

The fact a cup winner qualifies for EL muddies the stats. I'd like to know how the teams that qualified through the league placing did. Wigan et al who fluke a cup then go down are of course going to do worse then the previous season.