6 + 2 Point Deductions

[John from Bootle]

I think the moment Moshiri decided to break PSR rules then a hefty points penalty was inevitable. I think we were always likely to get between 6 and 12 points depending on mitigating and aggravating factors. Moshiris midfielder comments and trying it on with what the commercial loans were spent on meant we were always going to be at the harsher end of the range of punishments.

I think it is really harsh on the club and the fans but the moment Moshiri decided to disregard PSR we were always going to be in trouble. That is why I think we should be blaming Moshiri and the board. If we had done the right thing and then got relegated because say Leicester had ignored PSR I would want the book thrown at them.

Or fast forward to the end of the season imagine us being relegated because the Premier League thinks it is harsh to punish Forest.

If we get relegated because we have less points than other teams, then not arsed if they've been punished or not. Obviously my view will be skewed on that if they are not treated in the same manner as us. I'm of the belief that neither club should be hit with a points deduction.

So, you think it's harsh? Sound, so you are fully behind our right to appeal this then?

 

[Mashtray]

I imagine we'll get 5 points back, setting a precedent, then have them taken away again for the second transgression.

We can only get an extra 3 points having already paid for the previous 2 of 3 years.

I think the second breach is more like a circuit breaker type alert. It triggers in isolation not thinking about the previous cycles

 

[Neiler]

He followed it up with this:

View attachment 242406

View attachment 242405

Wolves who signed a heap of Portuguese loan players through ropey agent ownership in the Championship to financially dope promotion Wolves, ok John.

 

[HowardsWay]

I imagine we'll get 5 points back, setting a precedent, then have them taken away again for the second transgression.

I honestly thought it would be reduced to 6 pts but if we really have transgressed again, I don't see any way in the world we are getting anything back.

 

[RD2910]

I think the moment Moshiri decided to break PSR rules then a hefty points penalty was inevitable. I think we were always likely to get between 6 and 12 points depending on mitigating and aggravating factors. Moshiris midfielder comments and trying it on with what the commercial loans were spent on meant we were always going to be at the harsher end of the range of punishments.

I think it is really harsh on the club and the fans but the moment Moshiri decided to disregard PSR we were always going to be in trouble. That is why I think we should be blaming Moshiri and the board. If we had done the right thing and then got relegated because say Leicester had ignored PSR I would want the book thrown at them.

Or fast forward to the end of the season imagine us being relegated because the Premier League thinks it is harsh to punish Forest.

Again, if Everton had decided to break the rules on purpose, the commission would have said that, and yes that would have warranted a strong punishment. But, as you well know, they didn't.

 

[Tony’s Carp]

I honestly thought it would be reduced to 6 pts but if we really have transgressed again, I don't see any way in the world we are getting anything back.

The appeal can't consider the second charge so that will be irrelevant. We may well get some given back then some taken away for the second, but it won't effect the appeal of the first.

 

[MikeH72]

I honestly thought it would be reduced to 6 pts but if we really have transgressed again, I don't see any way in the world we are getting anything back.

We haven’t “transgressed again” though. We’re quite literally being punished for the same period we’ve already been punished for.

 

[HowardsWay]

Wolves who signed a heap of Portuguese loan players through ropey agent ownership in the Championship to financially dope promotion Wolves, ok John.

They spent big money on the likes of Fabio Silva & Semedo after promotion. They weren't loan deals. They did take advantage of a relationship between Nuno and Mendes so will be interesting to see what Forest do with that. However, Nuno left Wolves in 2021 and I think their concerns were more to do with the spending under Bruno Lage. They then got their house in order in the Summer as they knew they might have an issue. So what they did in the 2017-2018 Championship is no consequence to the last three years accounts.

 

[HowardsWay]

We haven’t “transgressed again” though. We’re quite literally being punished for the same period we’ve already been punished for.

Remains to be seen whether that really is the case or not. I know the argument that we have put forward but does it hold water? We'll see.

 

[HowardsWay]

The appeal can't consider the second charge so that will be irrelevant. We may well get some given back then some taken away for the second, but it won't effect the appeal of the first.

Good point. In theory they can't but this is us!

 

[RD2910]

We haven’t “transgressed again” though. We’re quite literally being punished for the same period we’ve already been punished for.

I don't mean to be pedantic, but 2018-22 and 2019-23 are not literally the same periods. The 2022-23 losses have to be pretty bad for Everton to have breached. It's not an upward curve.

 

[Neiler]

They spent big money on the likes of Fabio Silva & Semedo after promotion. They weren't loan deals. They did take advantage of a relationship between Nuno and Mendes so will be interesting to see what Forest do with that. However, Nuno left Wolves in 2021 and I think their concerns were more to do with the spending under Bruno Lage. They then got their house in order in the Summer as they knew they might have an issue. So what they did in the 2017-2018 Championship is no consequence to the last three years accounts.

12 players i believe while still in the Championship mate.

Jorge Mendes and Wolves: how deep does the agent’s influence run? | David Conn

Mendes’s first client is the Wolves manager, the club’s Chinese owners have a stake in the agent’s company and his influence has been clear in some signings

www.theguardian.com

 

[matty1878]

I don't mean to be pedantic, but 2018-22 and 2019-23 are not literally the same periods. The 2022-23 losses have to be pretty bad for Everton to have breached. It's not an upward curve.

is it only on the 20/21 and 20/23?

isn’t is the same thing i mean the first was for 19 mill for the ground? we told them

and this one were over again but we sold to be ok?

we havent had any advantage with these

why the PL are trying to f us over of something the created them selves

bet if we were rich a top 6 club

be a fine at best

 

[Swagger]

Rather than constantly think about it this is the situation in a nutshell in my view...

1. Aside from the poor management and accounting by the club, shocking given that Moshiri is an Accountant, Everton have essentially been punished for profit and sustainability by building a new stadium to ensure long term profit and sustainability. Ironic and ridiculous as put simply, if Everton had not built the new stadium then these charges wouldn't have been brought against them. Again, the funding towards the stadium is/was an issue but then that in itself lends the argument how did Moshiri pass the "fit-and-proper-person" test for an owner...and who regulates this test - the Premier League.

Apparently some claim Everton should have foreseen the Russian/Ukraine War...coming at a time whilst Gazprom was the sponsor of the Champions League and the world had deals in place with Russia. E.g., Germany went into recession arguably mainly due to it's over reliance on gas from Russia but hey only Everton should have known that Putin would start a war years in advance. HAVE A DAY OFF.

2. I think Everton will receive around 4 points back from the first charge but then lose between 2-4 points from the second charge. So I think Everton will pretty much be a wash with the current points tally. Nottingham Forest could receive a deduction of around 4-6 points. In practice that will be the only significant change from the current league table.

3. We need to knuckle down and secure enough points to stay up from the current position. I feel confident provided Pickford/Branthwaite/Tarkowski stay fit and available as it's up with the best goalkeeper/centre back combo in the league. DCL just needs a goal for his confidence - he will come good and the fans should stick by him. Beto is a nice complementary piece.

My main worry is if the takeover doesn't go through with 777 or another consortium then could administration become an issue with a further points deduction incoming?

 

[MikeH72]

I think the moment Moshiri decided to break PSR rules then a hefty points penalty was inevitable. I think we were always likely to get between 6 and 12 points depending on mitigating and aggravating factors. Moshiris midfielder comments and trying it on with what the commercial loans were spent on meant we were always going to be at the harsher end of the range of punishments.

I think it is really harsh on the club and the fans but the moment Moshiri decided to disregard PSR we were always going to be in trouble. That is why I think we should be blaming Moshiri and the board. If we had done the right thing and then got relegated because say Leicester had ignored PSR I would want the book thrown at them.

Or fast forward to the end of the season imagine us being relegated because the Premier League thinks it is harsh to punish Forest.

Hi Bailey. Can you follow up on your earlier point about Moshiri appointing loads of his yes men to the board and sacking all the people that disagreed with him regarding the charges? Can you name these board members?